advice on what i need, new 20 gal for low light/maintenance

[Big Ben]

Im just starting a 20 gal that i plan on putting some live plants with fish in. I plan on adding my jack dempsey and possiblly severum/jururpari. I have some natural looking gravel of good small round size in the tank and I'll be adding some filter media soon to start a fishless cycle.

I have one 18 inch fluorescent light ontop. Im looking for a low light/low maitenance setup. I got some plants on sale from my work the other day, Jungle Valissneria, Water lettuce, java fern and some other plant I forgot it's name already. I know the java fern is low maintenance but i duno about the others. They're all in my 10 gal that has compact fluorescent right now.

MY main question is for this type of setup, should I go with some specialised substrate like flourite? the amount of gravel i have in now isnt enough as is, so Ill be getting more gravel anyway. I was thinking of getting some flourite or something and makeing it 50-60% of the substate.

Also, I'm considering more light like compact fluorescent or maybe even somthin else if needed. I've been doing some reading and Im prerrty sure I need more light. If so wut wud u recomend that isnt too pricey? Im thinking of replacing the 18 inch lamp with some compact fluorescent.

FInally, would it be neccessary/benficial to get some micro nutrients to dose?

Any suggestions of types of plants i could use for this type of setup would also be greatly appreciated.

 

[patryuji]

Get a bigger tank. The Jack Dempsey AND the Severum are each INDIVIDUALLY going to grow too big for the tank, let alone stuffing them both in there.

 

[PrettyFishies]

I would say that you need a bigger tank. Do some research on those two species and use their ADULT size to figure out how big your tank should be. You may need to look into other species.

But, to answer your plant questions. I'm a big fan of eco-complete as a substrate because it has nutrients and bacteria included. You should look toward getting a 40 w fixture - be sure to look at Power Compact, not just flourescent. PC is much more beneficial for plants. - check www.drsfostersmith.com and www.hellolights.com

You should be able to keep a number of plants... got to www.aquariumplants.com and look at their low light section - crypts, swords, anubias.

You'll need to dose micro's - Seachem Flourish and Macro's - Potassium, Phosphate, Nitrate and maybe Iron (flourish should have enough). As you'll have relatively undemanding plants, you'll probably end up with a light (1-2x per week) dosing schedule.

 

[Big Ben]

yeah I'll probably just put the jack dempsey in there for now, i know how big they get, hes around 4 inches right now. I just wanted to move one or 2 out of my 48 gal.

Thanks for the site recomendations, I found this on drfostersmith http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=11418&N=2004+113345 the 24" lamp or the 20". I don't think this site ships to canada though . I'll look on bigals.
one more question though, waht are Power Compact called on sites, I can't seem to find them. I see Compact Fluorescent, Fluorescent, metal hallide, t-5 ho, vho, lunar lights lol sorry im a rookie here with the light thing.

 

[Purrbox]

Although Power Compacts and Compact Fluorescents are technically slightly different types of lighting, the names are often used interchangably.

 

[Big Ben]

ah i see. i've come across this http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/details/l-pc.php?product_ID=pc-alf24065 this is also the same but comes with a dif light http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/details/l-pc.php?product_ID=pc-al24065 . If i used 2 of these http://www.mops.ca/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/skus/li/LICL-54200.asp?L+scstore+ygvg4809ffec92ec+1178045232 would that be enough? http://www.petsandponds.com/securestore/c64280p16901493.2.html is another one i found. I like the Coralife 24" FRESHWATER AquaLight Fixture - 1 x 65W. Does the same watts per gallon apply with those lights?

 

[Purrbox]

Most of those fixtures are going to put your tank into the high light bracket instead of the low light low maintenance setup that you originally stated that you wanted. A pair of the self ballasted 20 watt bulbs in a incadescent fixture would probably only end up in the medium light bracket. This would give you more plant options while still keeping the tank fairly low maintenance.

 

[PrettyFishies]

You may want to consider a Glass versa top and 2 20W fixtures to spread the light...

 

[Big Ben]

thanks alot, I might go with the self ballasted bulbs. I am assuming the ones I found are good for growing plants? Is there any other brand that would be better?

Now I'm considering going with a higher light range instead of low light/low maintenance. I originally thought I'd be paying over 100$ for medium/high light.

I don't have a problem with doing maintenance at all, the cost for the light was the only issue for me as I'm just starting out with plants and don't want to get ahead of myself with somethign too difficult. I know i probably still need to get a plant substrate, micro/macro dosing and quite possibly C02 system, but the lightings the most expensive part of it all which im trying to keep low.

Would this be good for growing plants http://www.petsandponds.com/securestore/c64280p16901493.2.html and if so could you tell me what light bracket it would put a 20 gal in? If it's medium then ill just go with the self ballasted bulbs.

 

[PrettyFishies]

You get into light over 2 wpg and you need Co2. I have a 20 gal and the coralife 65W unit.... I also ADDED pressurized Co2 after paltry growth.

If you want to do that (get Co2 - about $225) then you should look into the Orbit light fixtures. They are wider and that's my biggest complaint about the Coralife unit. It's good, but I want a wider one.

As for bulbs - look for either 10,000K or 6700K lights (lighting spectrum). I have 10k and stellar growth. Some prefer 6.7K, but I don't have experience with it.

As for that paricular unit - find out the spectrum of the bulbs

 

[Purrbox]

The Coralife Freshwater Aqualight would definately put you into the High Light range, as would the Coralife Aqualight if you swap out the bulb for a daylight bulb. The third fixture would probably end up in the Medium to Medium High Light range.

Oh, and you can probably get similar bulbs to those self ballasted bulbs for a lot less from your local hardware store. Just make sure to get daylight bulbs (5000K-10000K) with the U shape. The spiral bulb loose a lot more light to restrike as a result of their shape.

 

[Big Ben]

hmm decisions, decisions. Well heres the kind of covering i have on it right now, im not sure if this is waht you were talking about when u mentioned a Glass versa top. Thanks for all the help both of u, you've really helped to clear some things up for me.

 

[PrettyFishies]

Yeah that's it. If you use that with your Dempsey, it would be better to get two fixtures to evenly spread the light. the rubber divder breaks up the light from the coralife unit and I ditched the glass top. But, my fish don't jump and your Dempsey might

 

[Purrbox]

That's a glass canopy and perfect for any of the lighting options you've been looking at. The Versa Top is just a particular make/model of glass canopy.

 

[Big Ben]

sweet. well maybe ill reconsider which fish i move in there, maybe the jurupari and the clown loach...Im going to this guys shop he runs in his basement, he specialises in plants so im gona go talk to him this week sometime. he makes co2 systems also so yeah i have to do some thinking and ill post an update within this week. thanks again

 

[Big Ben]

Well I haven't made it out to that guys shop, but that's cause after emailing him I think he's going to jsut try talking me into getting his co2 system.

I've decided I'll be going with one of these 2 for lighting :
1) http://www.petsandponds.com/securestore/c64280p16901493.2.html

or

2) 2 Coralife 20W Mini Compact Fluorescent self ballasted bulbs. The thing is, if I go with these I don't know which one to go with, http://www.aquariumguys.com/powercompact.html
this site shows the Colormax bulb and the 50/50. I have no idea what's better for plants or what 50/50 means.

I have an 18" flurescent bulb on my 20 gal right now and it has a pinkish glow to it that I'm not too fond off even though it enhances fish color. I'm looking to go with somethign that's just white, more natural looking I guess.

If anyone knows of any other good compact fluroscent self-ballasted bulbs I'd appreciate it if you could let me know of them.

I want to go with a co2 system that isn't pressurised that is under around 70-90$. Either DIY or maybe one that you can buy?

I saw a few on this site that are cheap like this one:
http://www.petsandponds.com/securestore/c163336p16229923.2.html but I'm not sure how good they are, so any input on that would be apprecaited as well.

There are others from this site here http://www.petsandponds.com/securestore/c163336.2.html. I'll probably get everything off that site because it has the best prices and shipping rates as it is a canadian company.

I've been looking at some DIY setups like a pop bottle design. I'm just wondering if this types of systems would be suifficient to the light I'll be providing. I'm really not worried about having my plants grow fast, I just want them to live and not die off within weeks or a month.

 

[Purrbox]

A 50/50 bulb is half daylight half actinic. Actinic light is used primarily used for Saltwater and most agree is of little use to plants. If you want the full effect of the bulbs, you need to go with the daylight ones. Definately check your local hardware store to see if you can the same thing for less. You might even find that they have a more appealing look than the Coralife ones would.

If you aren't going to go with Pressurized CO2, then definately go for DIY over one of the commercial packaged units. It'll cost less and you'll get better results. For a 20 gallon you'll want two 2 Liter bottles for CO2 generation. Then you'll want to choose the method of diffusion that you prefer. I'd recommend going with an intank reactor, an inline reactor, or the mist method. Any of these should get you good results. Here are some instructions that cover how to set up the bottles, intank reactor, and inline reactor.
DIY CO2 Article
Inline Reactor
For the mist method you would just need an airstone or diffuser that produces a fine mist of bubbles and place it directly under a powerhead which will blast the bubbles around the tank.

 

[Big Ben]

alrite then DIY co2 constuction plans are officially in progress. That's the exact diy co2 article i had read and had in mind. The only thing i was unsure of was what reacter method was best.

I liked the idea off the intank reactor, but for me whatever is the most efficient while being easy to do is what I'd go with. The inline method looks pretty easy but unfortunatley I don't have a canister filter to use it with.

Im kind of confused with one thing about the generator: where i can find the thing to put in the lid of the pop bottle? (see picture) Also, where can I get these so called 'check valves'?

 

[Purrbox]

You don't need a canister filter to use the Inline Reactor method. An inexpensive waterpump/powerhead can be used instead.

If you have a local hobby store that carries parts for building RC cars, airplanes, etc they may carry the Foremost bulkhead fittings. If not, similar online stores do carry them. Make sure to order the large which are Yellow and Blue instead of the small ones pictured in the article. The small ones are too small for the airline you'll likely be using. You should be able to get the check valves at your LFS in with the rest of the air supplies. The plastic check valves that only cost $1-2 will work fine as long as you replace them about once a year.

 

[Big Ben]

It's been a while but I finally found time to get this thig really going. THis is what I have so far:
2 2litre pop bottles
Silicon air tubing
1 T-connector
Co2 yeast/sugar
1 air stone made by lee's
1 small bottle of nutrafin iron enriched plant grow
silicon aquarium sealant

To my knowledge I still need (let me know if I'm forgetting anything):
Diffuser
check valve http://cgi.ebay.ca/Co2-One-Way-Chec...6QQihZ011QQcategoryZ66794QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


I hear something about a bubble counter, is this necessary? http://cgi.ebay.ca/Bubble-counter-L...4QQihZ015QQcategoryZ66794QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Also it's going down in my 48 gal instead of the 20 gal. Moved some fish around as well. Jurupari and Greenterror female are in the 20 gal with 2 corys.

I'm sort of confused with what kind of diffuser to go with I've found these on ebay: 1)http://cgi.ebay.ca/Co2-Diffuser-Spi...QQihZ004QQcategoryZ66794QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem0
2) somethign like this http://cgi.ebay.ca/Spio-VIII-Co2-di...hZ015QQcategoryZ66794QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
3)This type http://cgi.ebay.ca/Heavenly-stairs-...hZ015QQcategoryZ66794QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

4) or the diy powerhead with the gravel vac tube. I want to make this because i think it would circulate the co2 more efficiently but the only thing I'm unsure of is, does it matter what brand of power i go with and what models are recomended? Also to plug the bottom I can;t seem to find the eheim pads so I was gona go with some filter floss.

I have some compact fluorescents (self ballasted type) in there right now i think their 10-15 watts. They seem to be doing a decent job with the plants I have in their right now. I plan on probably upgrading to the 20 watt self ballasted.

So far in the 48 gal I have:
2 jungle valisnerias
1 of i think it's called mondo grass
a ton of java fern on driftwood
and some what i think may be moneywort or something similar I will check into that and then post photos.

The jungle val has been growing quite a bit so far. I should probably change the title of this thread or start a new one, I don't think this is going to be low light/low maintenance anymore

thanks again, Ben.