Having problems growing plants in the foreground and spending a ton of money

[jan4scuba]

Hi..I've tried every carpeting plant know to man and even some mid-ground plants trimmed down, but I cannot get them to grow in the front of the tank. They all start off well and then in a few weeks they start melting. I then have to start pulling up the sludge that's created. My water quality is spot on except for my GH which is very high (over 200). My KH is about 107. I have plenty of light with my BMLED planted lights. I dose daily with PPS-PRO, and none of my fish are eating them. Besides my high GH is it possible that the substrate is too course for the tiny roots these plants need. It's Eco-Complete for plants.

I've spent a lot of money trying to get this working without success. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks as always.
-j4s


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[Coursair]

Are you using CO2 ???
And yes, fine substrate or mesh can help.

Carpeting plants are a challenge for many.

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[Coursair]

Dry Start Method might be best for a future tank.

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[F.Sam]

Most of carpeting plants just won't grow without co2/ high light...


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[jan4scuba]

Thanks, I have high light and injected CO2. All my mid size and background plants grow so fast I need to trim every week. I've tried mesh carpet of dwarf baby tears and dwarf hair grass as well with no success. I'm not sure what dry method is.

 

[Coursair]

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=Dry start method aquarium plants


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[Brian_Nano12g]

Are your sources of dwarf baby tears and dhg growing them emersed? If so, you'll need to keep the CO2 fairly high while they transition/adapt to immersed growth. What are your nitrate levels? How long is your photoperiod? Are you consistent with daily dosing? PPS-Pro is a lean method of dosing, so you might need to increase it a bit. Lastly, eco complete is fairly inert at first, so some root tabs might help get it more fertile until it can absorb more nutrients.

 

[Brookster123]

Brian knows what time it is! Any root tabs in there? Were they tissue cultures?

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[jan4scuba]

Guys. I only buy from experienced growers on this site on Aquabid and on eBay. My mid and background plants grow like crazy. I dose PPS PRO everyday including extra Excel.
My lights are on 10 hrs a day and they are from BMLED for plants.

Nitrates are 0 and the tank has been up since May with root tabs. Phosphates are high as is GH. CO2 is run till drop checker turns yellow.

I'm really at a loss. I wanted to turn it into a Dutch style scape. Thinking about redoing the whole tank.

Thanks for the troubleshooting. It seems like a weird problem and very frustrating.


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[jan4scuba]

No cultures. The plants I buy look great and green and healthy when I get them. It seems I have a black thumb for foreground plants.


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[Brookster123]

O nitrates is a major problem, hc and dhg both require a steady supply of nitrates. Root tabs??

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[jan4scuba]

I just read that if you don't shake bottle 2 of the nitrate solution it will always read zero since the reaction agent crystallizes and sticks to sides and bottom.
Does anyone anything about this? I will try again later and report the results. I will also add root tabs and try again with another carpet plant.


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[Brookster123]

Yep. That is true.. shake it like it stole your bmled

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[Brian_Nano12g]

Yeah fast growing high light carpet plants are generally nitrate hogs. Even so you buy from experience aqua traders, you need to know if they grow their carpet plants emersed or immersed. The more experienced ones tend to grow them emersed (out of water, aka: dry start method, DSM) to 1) grow them faster in higher quantity, and 2.) Cheaper because they don't have to inject co2 due to the high amount of atmospheric co2. Unfortunately when you buy emersed grown plants, they tend to melt almost to nothing and eventually bounce back granted all the conditions you provide are good for adapting to living submerged.

Maybe you can try EI (estimative index) dosing the next time you try a carpeting plant. That way you'll know for sure your nitrate are on point.

 

[Fresh2o]

I sent out several orders of star repens and there have been two incidents (including this one) of melt. These plants were started from a tissue culture in 10/2013 and grown the first six months with DIY CO2, Finnex FugeRay, API leafzone, Seachem Flourish Comp, and AquaFertz root pellets. Last six months with pressurized CO2, FugeRay & Planted+, PPS Pro, phosphate 5-10, nitrate ~20. Substrate is EcoComplete (have not added root pellets in several months). Transport was unremarkable and weather was fine. Could the drop in phosphate levels trigger a melt? That is the only difference I see.


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[Brian_Nano12g]

Tissue culture and plants grown emersed are fine when they had a long time acclimating to immersed growth. You're good there, Fresh.

@jan4scuba - what size tank is this BML fixture on? What beam angle did you get, distance from light to substrate, how deep is this tank, etc? BML Regular or XB model? Maybe the spread coverage isn't sufficient and you're getting considerable drop off in PAR toward the front of the tank? These BML fixtures are skinny after all and in some cases with larger and deeper tanks, two are sometimes recommended to get even light coverage. Carpeting plants are obviously low to the substrate in the front so they get the least amount of PAR. I'm just taking a stab here... lol

 

[jan4scuba]

Regular XB Model. 90 degree angle and there's appx 13inches from light to substrate, I also have 2 Eheim power LED's in the back of the tank. These came with the tank. It's an Aquastyle 35L tank. I have the BML located in the middle right in front of Eheim's. Maybe I'll move it closer to front and see what happens. Fresh2o's plants were actually incredible. Strong stems some with root systems already in place. I trimmed off bottom leaves to keep them out of substrate. When he's ready to trim again, I'm on waiting list for another batch. What's your thoughts of trying 4 Leaf clover as an experiment on one side of foreground?

 

[jetajockey]

If you can find marsilea that's already in submersed form. I've got some that just came in and it's still transitioning, it's pretty slow. I am growing S.repens, some downoi, DHG, and a few other things under t8 lights on some 15gs.

 

[Brookster123]

Have you tried downoi jan? I had good luck with the tissue cultures under medium light.

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[Fresh2o]

If you can find marsilea that's already in submersed form. I've got some that just came in and it's still transitioning, it's pretty slow. I am growing S.repens, some downoi, DHG, and a few other things under t8 lights on some 15gs.

@Jeta - Are you adding CO2 to the T-8 lit tanks? Or is the light so low that it is not required? Interesting.
I grew Marsilea once but the slow growth couple with the less than ideal conditions at the time led to frustrating results. I would try it again though. It and crypt parva, another slow growing plant.
@jan - should be able to harvest more in December. I might get another tissue culture pack (either star repens or another low growing plant) and get that going.



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