I have a 75 gallon planted tank, CO2 system, adequate filtration, not too many fish, correct lighting, temp maintained at 78 degrees F. I feed the plants on alternate days with Flourish Excel in addition to the CO2 infusion. Tank does not receive direct sunlight. Green algae present but not a problem. The problem is black crusty formations on many of the plant leaves. I have determined that this may be diatoms but may be brown algae.Water chemistry is within normal parameters (ph, ammonia, nitrate, nitrite). Water changes at 40% replacement every three weeks, distilled water or rainwater used. Does anyone recognize these symptoms and if so, how do I get rid of them?
need advice on plant problem
- Thread starter trogon
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neilanh
Sliced Bread
Welcome to AA!
Are you sure it's diatoms you're seeing? Usually, diatoms tend to form on substrates and other items first before actually forming on the plant leaves.
A little more info on your tank will be helpful to us diagnosing your issue.
How much and what kind of lighting?
How many hours per day lights are on?
Do you know what CO2 level you're maintaining?
Are you dosing any supplements other than Excel?
Here's an article that may be of benefit to identifying and correcting the problem:
Greater Washington Aquatic Plant Association » Algae in the Planted Aquarium
Are you sure it's diatoms you're seeing? Usually, diatoms tend to form on substrates and other items first before actually forming on the plant leaves.
A little more info on your tank will be helpful to us diagnosing your issue.
How much and what kind of lighting?
How many hours per day lights are on?
Do you know what CO2 level you're maintaining?
Are you dosing any supplements other than Excel?
Here's an article that may be of benefit to identifying and correcting the problem:
Greater Washington Aquatic Plant Association » Algae in the Planted Aquarium
"Black crusty" sounds more like BBA (black brush algae), though without a picture it is really hard to say for sure.
I'm curious why you are dosing Excel if you already have a CO2 system. Never heard of anyone doing that before.
I'm curious why you are dosing Excel if you already have a CO2 system. Never heard of anyone doing that before.
need help with plant problem (continued)
Hello and thanks for your responses.
Lighting on my tank consist of three 40w bulbs, 48", one a plant/aquarium, one a wide spectrum and one labeled T12-BP, not sure what the BP designation means. The lights (and CO2 infusion system) are on for 12 hours and, obviously, off for 12 hours. M" y thinking on the combination of CO2 and Flourish Excel is that the CO2 system does not supply nutrients. Research on the internet indicated this would not be a harmful combination. Plant growth is satisfactory. Describing the problem as a "black crust" was not completely accurate. It is black and occurs in patches, and cannot be removed without damaging the plant leaf. Here is a picture:echinodorusleaf Photo. I failed to mention earlier that this condition occurs on Echinodorus sp. Other plant types seem to be unaffected. I have no way at present to monitor water chemistry other than ph, ammonia, nitrate and nitrites. The tank has been set up for several months with one outbreak of ich early on but no other apparent problems.
Thanks
Hello and thanks for your responses.
Lighting on my tank consist of three 40w bulbs, 48", one a plant/aquarium, one a wide spectrum and one labeled T12-BP, not sure what the BP designation means. The lights (and CO2 infusion system) are on for 12 hours and, obviously, off for 12 hours. M" y thinking on the combination of CO2 and Flourish Excel is that the CO2 system does not supply nutrients. Research on the internet indicated this would not be a harmful combination. Plant growth is satisfactory. Describing the problem as a "black crust" was not completely accurate. It is black and occurs in patches, and cannot be removed without damaging the plant leaf. Here is a picture:echinodorusleaf Photo. I failed to mention earlier that this condition occurs on Echinodorus sp. Other plant types seem to be unaffected. I have no way at present to monitor water chemistry other than ph, ammonia, nitrate and nitrites. The tank has been set up for several months with one outbreak of ich early on but no other apparent problems.
Thanks
Hello and thank you for your replies.
My tank lighting consist of three 40w bulbs, 48'. One is a plant/aquaruim, one a broad spectrum and the third is labeled t12-BP, not sure what that designates. Lights are on for 12 hours, as is the CO2 infusion system. My thinking on using CO2 in combination with Flourish Excel is that the Flourish will provide required nutrients, trace elements, etc. Using the term "black crust" was probably not accurate. This condition spreads over the leaf and cannot be removed without damaging the leaf. Only Echinodorus plants seem to be affected. I looked at some images of BBA and don't think they are similar. I have a photo but my last attempt was bumped by an administrator and I suspect it had to do with the image URL. I currently have no way to monitor water chemistry other than ph, ammonia, nitrate and nitrate. Do not know the level of CO2 other than the ph is constant at 6.8 to 7.0. I have dosed with an algacide after this problem appeared but it seems to have no effect. I am not sure it is diatoms, just guessing based on a description I read describing them "thin, brown, slightly rough coating on bottom material and plants". Of maladies I have seen described, this seemed to best describe what I am seeing.
Thanks.
My tank lighting consist of three 40w bulbs, 48'. One is a plant/aquaruim, one a broad spectrum and the third is labeled t12-BP, not sure what that designates. Lights are on for 12 hours, as is the CO2 infusion system. My thinking on using CO2 in combination with Flourish Excel is that the Flourish will provide required nutrients, trace elements, etc. Using the term "black crust" was probably not accurate. This condition spreads over the leaf and cannot be removed without damaging the leaf. Only Echinodorus plants seem to be affected. I looked at some images of BBA and don't think they are similar. I have a photo but my last attempt was bumped by an administrator and I suspect it had to do with the image URL. I currently have no way to monitor water chemistry other than ph, ammonia, nitrate and nitrate. Do not know the level of CO2 other than the ph is constant at 6.8 to 7.0. I have dosed with an algacide after this problem appeared but it seems to have no effect. I am not sure it is diatoms, just guessing based on a description I read describing them "thin, brown, slightly rough coating on bottom material and plants". Of maladies I have seen described, this seemed to best describe what I am seeing.
Thanks.
neilanh
Sliced Bread
This type of algae tends to grow primarily on slower growing plants, such as the echino you mentioned - which is probably why you don't see it in other places.
There's a few things you can do to try to combat it.
First, for now, drop your photoperiod down to 8 or 9 hours a day to try to stop feeding it so much light (once it's gone you can increase your photoperiod again).
Some folks have had success with using a overdosing technique with excel. It's risky, but you can try dosing your tank with double or triple the recommended dosage every other day for a week or two and see if that helps.
Either way, we need to get you the ability to measure the CO2 level you have in the tank. Based on the test kits you have, you just need to get a kH test kit. By knowing the kH of your water and the pH level in the tank, we can calculate your CO2 level. I suspect you're going to find that the CO2 level is low and need to increase it into the 30-35ppm range. This will help to combat that stuff as well.
There's a few things you can do to try to combat it.
First, for now, drop your photoperiod down to 8 or 9 hours a day to try to stop feeding it so much light (once it's gone you can increase your photoperiod again).
Some folks have had success with using a overdosing technique with excel. It's risky, but you can try dosing your tank with double or triple the recommended dosage every other day for a week or two and see if that helps.
Either way, we need to get you the ability to measure the CO2 level you have in the tank. Based on the test kits you have, you just need to get a kH test kit. By knowing the kH of your water and the pH level in the tank, we can calculate your CO2 level. I suspect you're going to find that the CO2 level is low and need to increase it into the 30-35ppm range. This will help to combat that stuff as well.
sampster5000
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
I had a big BBA breakout a few weeks ago. I did not overdose excel but spot treated the algae. It ALL fell off and floated to the top the next day. I really dont know if it was the excel but thats when it died off. I also use CO2 injection + excel. Why? Seachem recommends it and I havent gone wrong once following what they say 
mgamer20o0
Aquarium Advice Addict
excel or h2o2 kills it. diy is really for the most part unstable. excel can help maintain the carbon levels when a diy system is dying or just getting started.I had a big BBA breakout a few weeks ago. I did not overdose excel but spot treated the algae. It ALL fell off and floated to the top the next day. I really dont know if it was the excel but thats when it died off. I also use CO2 injection + excel. Why? Seachem recommends it and I havent gone wrong once following what they say
how come you use distilled and rain water?
sampster5000
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Yall say you need nitrate and phosphate in your water so I have a question. What media do you use in your filters if filters are usually there to remove ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate?
Filter media does not remove nitrate. Filter bacteria convert ammonia into nitrite, and the nitrite into nitrate. The nitrates are released back into your system.
sampster5000
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Hmm... what is the purpose of chemical filtration if it does not remove nitrate? All companies boast about how well their filters remove ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Why would they tell us how well they remove this stuff chemically if they do not?
I've never seen a boast of removing nitrate on a filter box, though it wouldn't surprise me to see that claim on shady generic brands.
Some of the new systems using bioballs are supposed to remove nitrate, but I have yet to invest or try one of those systems.
Nitrates are traditionally removed with PWC if they are excessisive, or by plants or both.
As for filter medium, it depends on what kind of filter you have. I use all kinds in my tanks, from traditional cartidges with carbon, to plain old gravel and filter floss, up to ceramic mediums. There are a lot of choices for filter mediums.
Some of the new systems using bioballs are supposed to remove nitrate, but I have yet to invest or try one of those systems.
Nitrates are traditionally removed with PWC if they are excessisive, or by plants or both.
As for filter medium, it depends on what kind of filter you have. I use all kinds in my tanks, from traditional cartidges with carbon, to plain old gravel and filter floss, up to ceramic mediums. There are a lot of choices for filter mediums.
sampster5000
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Here's a quote directly from the description of the Fluval G3's Nitrate Cartridge...
"The Fluval G3 Nitrate Cartridge is for use with the Fluval G3 advanced filter and will remove up to 13,000 mg of nitrate ions in freshwater aquariums. Nitrate concentration should not exceed 20 mg/L in freshwater aquariums. Planted aquariums require approximately 5mg/L of nitrate as a source of nitrogen for healthy plant growth."
It goes on to say it will completely remove nitrate from the tank within a few days. Everytime I look at filters I see how well they say their filters remove ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Just kinda confused
"The Fluval G3 Nitrate Cartridge is for use with the Fluval G3 advanced filter and will remove up to 13,000 mg of nitrate ions in freshwater aquariums. Nitrate concentration should not exceed 20 mg/L in freshwater aquariums. Planted aquariums require approximately 5mg/L of nitrate as a source of nitrogen for healthy plant growth."
It goes on to say it will completely remove nitrate from the tank within a few days. Everytime I look at filters I see how well they say their filters remove ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Just kinda confused
I have procured a Kh test kit and found the Kh/Ph testing to determine CO2 content of the water to be somewhat subjective, the Ph more so than the the Kh. After finally settling on a diffusion rate, I estimate the Ph to be 6.8. It takes five drops of the Kh test solution to turn the water being tested from blue to yellow. This results in a dissolved CO2 level of 23. My plants are thriving with the exception of the black spots. They cannot be removed by hand. Eventually, though slowly, the black (algae?) covers the upper surface of the leaf. Assuming the reduced light level and CO2 level of 23 ppm is adequate, is there anything further I can do to get rid of this blight?
Trogon
Trogon
neilanh
Sliced Bread
I'd try to increase your CO2 level a bit further at least above 30ppm. This will help the plants to (hopefully) out compete the algae for the nutrients in the water.
