Need some advice on getting started the right way!

The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an interest in aquariums or fish keeping!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

saberry

Aquarium Advice Freak
Joined
Sep 13, 2003
Messages
441
Location
Missouri City, TX USA
I am including an attatchment, if I can do it right, that lays out my plans for my 55 gal aquarium. I have not added any water, bought any fish, or plants nor will I until I am sure I have a good plan. Please look at the attachment and let me know what you think.

I am particularly concered with the Gold Severum as this is the fish I am basing my other fish and plants on. I think I will have a good balance for pH and temperature, but am not sure about dH. I had a 29 gal show before and the Severum was the hardiest of the fish and I paid no attention to water hardness whatsoever. Was I just lucky or is that perhaps a little less critical than pH or proper filtration.

Unless there are any serious naysayers, I am planning on using an AquaClear300 power filter. I was also considering a cannister filter, but there is a pretty good price difference and my prior experience with AquaClear was good - albeit on a smaller tank.

My final concern is lighting. All my plants should do well with moderate lighting but the Java Fern is listed as a low light plant. If I stay on the low end of moderate, about 2 watts per gal, should it do OK as well?

I know that's a lot of information and questions so please take your time.

Thanks for your help,
Sean

PS Here is an add-on. The attachment does not seem to be enabled so I am going to attempt to paste my attachement document/table below:

Aquarium Planning
Tank Statistics: 55 gal, 48W x 18H x 12.5 depth

Fish List (New World a.k.a. South American Cichlids)
Name ph range Temp range dh range
Gold Severum 6.0 – 6.5 73-77 4 - 5
Green Severum 6.0 – 6.5 73 -77 4 - 5
Rainbow Cichlid 6.5 – 8.0 72 - 77 9 - 20
Clown Loach 6.0 – 7.5 72 - 86 8 - 12
Snowball Pleco 6.5 – 8.0 72 - 77 6 - 10
Fesitvum Cichlid 6.5 – 8.0 72 – 77 9 - 10
AVERAGES 6.83 75.42 9.33

Plants
Foreground plants
Anubias barteri round leaf 6.0 – 7.5 72 – 82 2 – 15
Micro Sword 6.8 – 7.5 64 – 77 8 – 15
Midground plants
Melon Sword 6.5 – 7.5 65 –82 5 – 18
Java Fern 5.5 – 7.5 68 – 82 2 – 12
Chilensis 6.5 – 7.5 72 – 82 5 - 12
Background Plants
Red Rubin 6.5 – 7.5 72 – 82 5 – 12
Wisteria 6.5 – 7.5 74 – 82 5 - 12
Onion Plant 6.5 – 7.5 72 – 82 5 – 12
Jungle Val 6.5 – 7.5 72 –82 5 - 12
AVERAGES 6.93 75.44 9.0

Average Requirements of Fish and Plants Combined
pH = 6.88 Temp. = 75.43 dH = 9.17

Light Concerns:
All plants need moderate lighting with one needing mod. to high( Anubias barteri round leaf), and only one (Java Fern) needing low. Will the low end of moderate (around 110 watts total) be sufficient?

Other Concerns:
The primary fish in the tank will be the Gold Severum (Banded Cichlid). The dH requirement for this species is a small range of 4-5. The tank average requirement is 9.17. Will this species thrive at this dH if all other requirements are optimum?
 
I think you should not concern too much on the figure right now. get the tank 1st with the plant and pump. once you have those then step by step only look in to the figure thing cause you never know what are other factor that might influance the figure (eg. type of gravel u used, your local water chemicals, maker of the chemical you buy for your tank as each maker have differ dosage and $$$).

To my experience is ether you have a buddy whom you can seek advise or everything need to trial and error. You just cant plan everything like a enginering project (tried that, done that and still screw up a bit :) ). of couse aquariumadvise.com ROCKS!!..
 
Hiya saberry and welcome to AquariumAdvice :)

I'm not 100% sure about the hardness requirements; I'm guessing the fish you get will be tank raised and not wild (except for the loaches and possibly the plec). If so, it will well acclimated to a higher Dh and that may not be the issue it seems to be. This may explain your success with the severums previously. Find out from the lfs you purchase it from what their Dh is; chances are the fish will be coming from a tank with similar tap water parameters to yours. You'll have to do some research on the hardness requirements of the other fish (try www.fishbase.org ) to check, although I have to admit, changing the Dh for one type of fish isn't making a lot of sense to me if their requirements all don't match. I'm sure the others will chime in with ideas and better info then I.

Lessee..what else. Oh! I'm guessing the 300 in the AC name means it turns over 300 gallons an hour. You want between 6-10x the tank amount per hour so its kinda low. You might want to consider either a more powerful filter, or adding another one.

110 watts is fine; think 1-3 watts per gallon depending on plant light requirements. Most of your plants need moderate 110 watts should do them fine :)

Do keep in mind the adult sizes of your chosen fish; it sounds like that tank may be a bit crowded. And you'll want at LEAST 3 clown loaches although more is better; they're unhappy without buddies. They alone have the potential to reach around a foot long each (although they grow slowly).

I'm impressed with your preplanning; good to have a outline prior to getting into a fishtank. Means less surprises and more time to deal with the few that DO pop up (as they always do LOL).
 
Thank you.

Thanks for the quick feedback. I was actually considering either using two of the 300's or possibly one of the 500's. As far as checking the dH, I actually checked all the aspects of compatability that I could find first as far as size, aggressiveness, pH and temperature. It was after I compiled that list that I started looking at hardness.

As far as the list goes, I will probably not have all of those mentioned. I just did not want to go into the pet store without a clue and say, "oh, that one looks pretty," and then get home to have it die in 3 days because I chose poorly. I want to have a selection of fish to choose from before I go to the lfs.

You are right though, I will have a few of the Clown Loach's - I love those guys. I may just have one of each type of the cichlids - maybe two fo the Golds and only one Pleco.

How about the plants. That part is very new to me - mine were always plastic before. I want a lush environment - will this do or might this be overcrowded as well?
 
Did some more research

I did some more digging around the site here and it seems the consensus seems to be that bio-spira by Marineland is the way to go on cycling a new tank. After a little searching, I found a lfs that carries it. I got the 3 oz. size which should be plenty for my 55 gal. Now I just have to make a filter decision. Am I correct in assuming that I should have the filter in place when I add the water and the bio-spira, or is it ok if I get the water in with the bio-spira and wait a week or so on the filter?

Also, I have not put in any gravel yet. I think I will use the blasting sand type (like very small pea gravel.) Should I have this in before the bio-spira or will that matter so long as I wait for the tank to stabilize before adding any plants or fish?

I guess what I am really asking, is what is the best order to follow in terms of adding water, chemicals, gravel, plants, and fish. I know that is a loaded question, so simple answers will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Sean
 
Bio-spira will have instructions but basically you setup the whole tank the way you want it (Filter included), add water and dechlorinator and all decorations and plants. Then you add biospira when the water temp is correct and wait a small amount of time and within 24 hours add the full load of fish. If you add less fish it means that you will need to add some extra biospira each time you add a new fish.

The bacteria will need 2 things: a place to grow and food. The place to grow will be the substrate and filter media and the food will be the fish waste. Without these it will just be a waste of money.
 
hmmm

That's quite a bit different than the old concept of adding a couple of hardy fish and making sure they survive before adding more. I may do a half and half approach since I will have extra Bio-spira and because I won't have all that many fish anyway.
Thanks!
 
I would still get an ammonia and nitrite test kit and test things out. You never know if there will be spikes or not, though there shouldn't be. Add the least aggressive fish first so that they can establish themselves and won't be overwhelmed by aggressive fish that have become dominant in the tank.
 
Actually, don't wait. Add the fish AND the Bio-Spira at the same time. Those bacteria are going to go in hungry; you want to be sure to have a supply of ammonia right away. Its not made to play catch up with high ammonia levels, but to deal with slowly rising levels of ammonia so its perfect to add to a new tank along with the fish.

And definitely get those tests before you add the fish. Bio-Spira is awesome and works great, but it HAS to be kept refrigerated. If it somehow got warm (left out before stocking at the store for example) the bacteria would have died and you wouldn't know. And especially since you've decided not to add it all, you want to be sure you've added enough. Better to be safe :)
 
You do have 24 hours don't you to add the fish before the bacteria starts to suffer? I think there is a 1 hour wait minimum, but I may be wrong.
 
Says specifically on the package to add with fish; I take that to mean don't wait (LOL yes, I have some in the fridge). But I checked the website which says : "Introduce fish safely within 24 hours, not weeks" AND "Add BIO-Spira™ and BIO-Coat™ along with fish." I hate it when things aren't completely clear.

At some point I'll get off my butt n email em and find out for sure *grin*
 
I will be using the bio-spira

Sorry if I gave the impression that I would not be using it at all. It is in my refrigerator right now and will be used. I am toying with the idea of doing half at start up adding half the fish and then then other half when I add additional fish. I'm not sure if I will be able to find all the fish I would like easily anyway. As I mentioned, I have enough bio-spira for 2 tanks my size so I think that should work OK.

I'm searching for the right gravel right now. There is a shop across town that sells the very small pea gravel (I think it is actually blasting sand), and I think that is what I will use.

I may order the plants online since the local selection has not been too impressive. Anyone have any place to recommend?
 
I've ordered from Arizon Gardens ( http://www.azgardens.com/ ) and Aquarium Garden ( www.aquariumgarden.com ). I was satisfied with both places, but AZGardens requires a minimum order, athough they also carry lots of other stuff like shrimp and SAE. Aquarium Garden had a better selection of unusual plants and have been awesome in their customer service.
 
Great site.

Thanks for the link to Aquarium Gardens. They have an awsome return policy and have every single plant listed in my planning sheet. Their flat rate shipping charge is pretty fair too!
 
As long as you all don't seem to mind, I'll keep asking questions. Maybe I should move over to the plant area for this, but what general fertilizer would you recommend?

PS What does Kudos refer to?
 
I was amazed with Aquarium Garden's selection; they were the ONLY place which carried Cyperus Helferi, which I decided I HAD to have and then spent a month searching for LOL

Also, I got their 12 plant assortment. Turns out one of the plants was a mistake, and was a terrestrial plant. It promptly rotted away in my tank (didn't know it at first; like AG I thought it was a submersible plant). I emailed em to let em know what happened, and they got back to me the SAME day, apologising and promising to send me a replacement at their expense. I love them LOL

As for ferts, erm. Dunno LOL I haven't been there yet. I'm almost afraid to; the plants, with the exception of the sag, have taken off so well they're taking over the tank. I've got tendrils with babies and rootlets and new leaves all over the frickin place LOL I'd def throw a post into the plants forum; some of the folks there are VERY knowledgeable bout plants and can direct you better then I.
 
A quick update

I finally made my filtration decision. I got the Eheim 2215 and a maxi-jet 900 powerhead. I put the gravel in today and will get the water in and circulating tomorrow. After a couple days, and H20 tests, I will be adding the bio-spira. So, hopefully, I will have a new picture or two for my gallery by this weekend. This site has been a great resource. Thanks to all of you for your patience and continued assitance.
 
Yay! Pics *grin* I cannot wait. I've decided I'm a fishtank voyuer...I love lookin at other people's fishtanks LOL

And you're very welcome :) Glad we could help.
 
Some Tips

Some Tips for Beginners

How Long Do You Wait Before Adding Fish?

Opinions vary so much on this subject that it is hard to give a reasonable answer. The Americans for instance have what is known as "cycling", which is the period of time a tank has to remain empty of fish until the good bacteria have established themselves and are controlling the conditions of the water in the tank. Most aquarists recommend a six week waiting period using what they call "A Fishless Cycle". In order for the good bacteria to build up (starting the nitrogen cycle),they need a source of ammonia to feed on. When using this fishless cycle they recommend you add daily doses of pure ammonia to the tank for the bacteria to feed on, which is needed to actually start the nitrogen cycle working.

I would however like to point out that I personally have never used the "Fishless Cycle" method, and never shall. Having to sit and watch an empty tank for weeks on end is not my idea of a pleasurable hobby, so any references to "Cycle" in the following article shall mean the "Nitrogen Cycle", which in simple terms means the time that the system will take to establish a working biological filtration system.
Let me, as an 'amateur' ichthyologist just run through a 'non chemical, non additive setup' that served myself and many other millions in the hobby successfully for several decades

We would set the tank up, fit the u/g filter, and then arrange the pre-washed gravel. If available,we might also use unwashed gravel from another tank and possibly an old filter to speed the process along. Next we would fill the tank with water, bring it up to the right temperature, let it stand a few days, normally three to ensure the heat was constant and there were no probs. In those three days we would arrange plants and rocks, then perhaps introduce a guppy or two.
The old pH testing strips from the chemist gave us a quick idea of the pH level, and if it was alkaline we would run a bit of peat in the filter bowl for a day or so to bring the level right. If it was too soft and acid add a bit of limestone or coral chips to the box filter and keep an eye on the pH until it was where You wanted it.



Basically that s it, with little or no stress to the fish.
Calculation for fish content is to allow 15. cm of surface area per 5cm of fish, but with an air supply this could be increased.
Water was never added unless it was exactly the same temperature as the water in the tank, and newcomers were never added until they were quarantined for ten days. Plants are meticulously examined for nasties and rinsed in a mild sterilising solution before adding to the tank. All mainly common sense.



Each tank had it own net and tools:
Nothing is ever taken from one to the other. Dipping of fingers or hands from one tank to the other is an absolute sin, and never done.
Hands are washed before working on the next tank, and any drips or condensation are wiped away in case it/they dropped from one tank to the next lower one. A single drop of water can transmit a disease from one tank to another so quickly you wouldn't believe.



Water changes:
Water changes, (in my case) is done on a visual basis. If the water has evaporated ½" from its original marked level I would do a 30% water change, every week more than perhaps once a month. Invariably the tanks might have needed a clean up, so in this situation you would siphon the rubbish off the bottom and into a bucket.

Water:
Too hard, too soft, too alkaline, too acid - all can be balanced without chemicals.



Substrate/gravel:
Too fine, packs down tight, causing bad circulation, especially with u/g filters, whereas too large a gravel will allow food to reach inaccessible places with dire consequences - food remains uneaten and quickly fouls the tank. Remedy, go for what's right, not what looks pretty.



Slow deterioration of rocks and ornaments:
Badly selected rocks and substrates, (lime-based gravels, sandstones, corals, shells, ornaments), will all change your tank conditions as they slowly leach or dissolve over time. That ornament or substrate may look great, but is it killing your fish?



Hiding Places:
Many types of fish need places to hide, but many things other than plants are usually unsightly. The upturned flower pot of the terra-cotta type can soon become disguised by algae growth and such, but a simple idea for quick camouflage is to spread silicone glue on the item and roll it in some gravel. You can do this with all sorts of things including bits of pipe that might be homes for your nocturnal fish such as some catfish.



Plants:
Too few plants - no hiding places for fragile fish, causing fish to be bullied. Again,find out the likes and dislikes of your plants. For instance, most Crypts prefer dimly lit areas, etc. Shallow gravel will not produce good plants. Bank your gravel to the rear of the tank (at least 3") and plant accordingly, big deep rooted plants to the rear, small types to the front. As with your garden, they need feeding and something to get their roots into. The wastes from your fish may in most cases be enough food, but a good root structure and light are essentials for all plants. A 'Plantab' for aquarium plants slipped under the roots will assist flagging plants. Or try this:



Plant Fertiliser:
Putting fertiliser under plants is a good idea, but unless it is in a tablet form it can be really messy. Try this.
Mix a small quantity of organic peat and potting mix (again organic) in a bowl with water until the peat/potting mix becomes fully saturated. Use an ice cube tray and fill with the mixture. Pop it in the freezer till solid. You now have cubes of fertiliser that you can pop under your plants without mess. The ice will melt quickly leaving a nice deposit of fertiliser in the right place.



Weighted Plants:
Instead of attaching lead weights to plants, use a rubber band and a pebble. Place the pebble at the base of the plant and wrap the rubber band around both the pebble and the plant stem. Once buried it will remain unseen, and you have no bits of lead in your tank if the plant breaks free.



Filtration:
NEVER turn your filter or air off for any length of time, especially an undergravel filter. The bacteria buildup will skyrocket causing major probs instantly.
Always have some form of air supply running if your tank is in the least bit crowded. Contrary tobelief, the bubbles from an airstone don't put oxygen in the water. What the bubbles do is break up and disperse the CO2 that can build up in a tank. Watch for fish lurking near the surface with open mouths, a sure sign of lack of oxygen in the water. Not the Gouramis, Bettas etc, which are surface breathers anyway. For these fish, ensure the surface is scum free by dragging a sheet of paper over the surface of the water occasionally. This will completely remove the thin film that sometimes forms on the surface of the water. Check each day.



Heat Distribution:
Fit your heater as low as possible in your tank and clear of the gravel, and if it is a separate unit from the thermostat place it at the opposite end of the tank. This will prevent cold spots in your tank and provide a constant temperature at all levels. (Heatrises, so if possible fix your heater in a horizontal rather than a vertical position forbetter heat distribution).



Twin Heaters:
Fitting two heaters in a tank seems a waste, but if you set one to only come on at say 72degF then in the event of a heater failure you won't lose all your fish, and you will always have a spare heater on hand.



Feeding:
Feed half as much as you think your fish need, and if its not consumed in less than five minutes, you are feeding too much. An established tank will sustain your fish for a week or more without food, so don't think you need to feed them every time you pass the tank. "Ooh look, they're all excited at seeing me, they must be hungry…" In goes another feed, the third today. How often have you done or said this?



When to feed:
Never feed at night then turn the lights off and leave the fish in darkness, a majorproblem. The corys and kuhlis won't mind, but your tank will suffer if the night dwellers don't eat all the remains of the food. Small fish have small mouths, so vary your food type to suit them all. Give them a live food treat now and again, brine shrimp, microworms, grindal worms, white worms, or even a chopped up earthworm if you have big fish. In time you will know their likes and dislikes.



Probs with algae:
Throw the scraper away an get a couple of small plecos. They're fun, hardy, and adore algae.



Snails:
To me they are a damn nuisance, and have no place in a tropical fish tank, but the fish love them if you crunch them up.



Impulse buying of fish:
Fine if you know the fish, and of course is great for the LFS (Local Fish Shop), but can cause many upsets and even tears if you don't read first, so take an hour or so and read all you can before you jump in the deep end.



Lastly:
Read, read, read  - the three rules of keeping fish. Learn every possible thing you can about where your fish comes from, its water conditions, its temperature limitations,the food it eats, the species it can live with, its breeding habits, is it a loner or does it school with others, and in general, its likes and dislikes. piranhas and neons have anadipose fin and are distant relatives, but they definitely don't live together, so read and learn all you can BEFORE you add that particular fish to your collection. (No comments on the piranhas please)



It seems a lot to take in all at once, but all this info. is on this site and many others just waiting to be read if you care to read and study it. My philosophy is that "If anyone can teach me something I will listen, should it be a child, or a ninety year old." So I am learning each time I read an article about tropical fish.



We all lose fish at some time or other, and the reasons can be mystifying, but personally I feel that many of the losses are caused by either sheer neglect and not making oneself familiar with the fish BEFORE purchase, along with the possibility that many of the fish were actually poisoned due to the intake of chemicals, incorrect or too many water changes and such.



We can take a pill for a headache or an ailment, but if we take too many of them it will undoubtedly kill us. This will possibly cause a lot of backfire from the clued-up aquarists, but I still feel that if you read up on your fish, get to know its habits and living and water conditions and the neighbours it lives with, then you are well on the way to having a less stressful and very enjoyable hobby. Many newcomers try it once and leave quickly after their first failures. We don't want this to happen to you, so read everything you can about the hobby, consider your situation and your set-up, then, and only then, think (very carefully) about your next purchase.
...Just a note for people who keep goldfish in a heated aquarium:
All fish have the right to a decent life, even goldfish. I myself have culled thousands of fish in my time I suppose, but these were either runts or a defective strain that I would not allow to continue living and breeding for fear they would fill our tanks with some of the oddities I see today. Selective breed by all means, but don't allow your runts and defective breeds to enter the world of the aquarist. (Are there any 'true' strains still out there?). Goldfish are cold water fish, and keeping them at 70F+ degrees will shorten their life span by many years. We had goldfish that lived happily for ten years, outside in a pool that would freeze over in winter with over an inch of ice, but come spring they were always there. The heated tank may also cause undue stress to the fish, who knows. Why not be a good aquarist and introduce some youngster to the hobby by donating your fish to them rather than make the fish suffer all it's life?... but make sure they read a good book about goldfish first.


by Bill "Pegasus NZ" of New Zealand
 
Back
Top Bottom