Trying to build something, a babbling post and catching up.

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czcz

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So I've been away from the hobby for a while, and in the year and a half interim had a 40 gallon regular, 192w CF, new but opened Aquasoil, and some driftwood set up. I wanted a paludarium I could grow cool plants and maybe flower an aquatic plant in. (I've never flowered anything except P. fluitans/Red root floater, but that doesn't really count.) I figured I could a styrofoam and cement background like I did for my old freshwater fuge, but I've been so busy with work (for ~2 years) that when I finally stuck water in this tank I totally half assed it and prayed wood would hold up soil. Aquasoil breaks down into mud even when left in open air, by the way. I am a moron. So instead I just build up land area with pots (filled with sand and soil and allowed to drain -- I already had mud anyway), one of those thick fabric pond planter things and a wall of rock to keep the island out of the foreground. All the rearranging has left a layer of dust on everything, even a week later.

Anyway, here's what it looks like most of the time a month in. This is before a little trim of the stems where I hope for bushy clumps that bend down from the light (There's R. rotundifolia and HM in there.)
tank_112308_noon_nofog.jpg


About a week ago I used a Vicks humidifier, some reduction fittings, and my old clear fuge tubing to add fog -- I still work ~12 hour days and misting is not practical. And I prefer and open tank. The fogger runs on a timer on a half hour on, hour off schedule until right before and after the photoperiod, except from 12pm to 1pm, when it runs for an hour straight. There's 2 male and 2 female Spiketail Paradise Fish in there and they dig it, but have kind of owned the entire left rear area of the tank until sundown, when they own most of the tank. There's 4 male and 4 female Dario dario/Scarlett badis too, but they are afraid of me. The six Otos say hi.

tank_112308_noon.jpg


Let me try to explain what I'm hoping for: The R. rotundifolia in the back has been looped to the side a few times and rooted. I want to make slope up then allow it to float on the surface and increase the shade right center. The neat thing about all the sunlight is it makes really dramtic shadows, and I'd like to enhance that, and figure it will also allow me to watch my shy fish.

But even better will be if some coaxing and the humidity lets the rear stems go emergent to their round leaf form like they would in nature. I hope to cover those stiff submersed stems with the submersed, running rotundifolia.

The right side was capped with more Aquasoil in prep for a Downoi valley. I've also wanted to try Downoi on the rocks trully emersed (with the rhizome out of water) and may try some on that rock. I also have some Weeping moss coming, which I'll try in clumps all over the place. I need to propogate more HM to spread around the tank.

The top part have a couple Bromeliads from my local nursery, which were in this dusty bucket and an ugly gray, but now are a nice very pretty green. The left pair send runners everywhere and I don't know what to do with them. The plant with the bulbs near center is a Mexican orchid that the plant nursery guy said would be great, but I think he just wanted my $20. It was not labelled and he did not know the species. So I hope it stays small. Do you know what it is? Its roots bend around the glass and go into a small planter filled with bark and water slightly below the top of the bark line.

So, the dead spots: I'm not sure what to do left center. Left midground has some R. macrandra "Narrow leaf" that really needs some green behind it to stand out. You can see part of a submerged pot in the back which will be covered up as I build the land area, but there's some R. macrandra "narrow leaf" and R. wallichii stems growing out back there too. Maybe I can use a big bunch of HM to bend down over that section and make a nice shaded cave? The little round leaves stem plants poking out of the water around the orchid is Bacopa australis, but I think its not quite right in the back. Maybe L. cardinallis "Small form"?

Think I should try a road of plants or open substrate to the right center cave area?

Not sure yet how to build the top right and top left of the land area. I kind of think I can get away with adding another stryo/cement backwall with a running tank, as long as I keep the bottom of it above water and build in good places to clamp while drying. But I don't want to block too much sunlight: I want lots of sunlight. So maybe I'll just use a ton of ferns and bromeliads out of the water attached to wood, piping, and rock which will let sun poke through and give a sense of depth to the back. Then start building a garden on a shelf behind and around the tank. With EI I have lots of fertilized water going down the drain :)

Do you have ideas? What do you think? Does it just look like a tank that should be filled all the way with water? Got ideas for plants that would dig it in planters or mounted to wood? What else is it missing?
 
I think it looks awesome, you might want to fill it like a little more, like so it's 3/4 and not 1/2. But besides that it looks freakin awesome, love the fog idea.
 
It's great to see you getting back into the hobby! You've been missed! I'm looking forward to seeing how this project evolves.
 
Thanks!

What do you think about the back left center, Joy? The water line in the pic is actually an inch or two higher than I want to maintain it. I'm wondering if I could get away with B. japonica on the ledge there and just top it like I would a stem I wanted low. I think its orange red under high light would blend too much with the rotundifolia and spoil the macrandra though.

So now I think I'm just going to grow HM as fast as I can (its taken a while to establish) and try to bend it on the surface. I hope this ties the tank together better than the collectoritis I had the first time around :)

JustAnother20's awesome trimming and grouping also has me thinking I need to put more effort in the back right corner. I wonder if I could steal her(?) cool terraced leaved thing on a smaller scale with downoi and say R. wallichii bursting out of it. Typing helps ideas :)
 
Hey czcz, you have indeed been missed. You are a talented, smart, humble guy.
Your encouragement and kind words kept me going many times:):)

You probably don't want to hear this, but I think it looks great the way it is. In MHO you've got to let it grow in more to see exactly what you have and don't have to work with. To early to tell yet.
I agree, the mist is a brilliant idea. Give it some more time to see what you have to work with in a couple of months if you can keep your hands off it!

Great to see you again!!
 
I really like the overall driftwood layout. I'd love to see the driftwood slightly more overgrown so that it's weaving in and out of the plants. Of course some time will probably take care of this aspect.

I think that I'd be tempted to remove the stem plants on the right and replace them with something shorter, possibly HC. This would emphasize the slope which is extremely nice. I'd also fill in with some more plants on the left to further emphasize the slope.
 
I like it quite a lot the way it is. I have to agree once it grows in it will fill in some of the bare spots to some extent. The fogger is a great idea.
 
Thanks everyone!

Joy, your advice about opening up the right side is great and eating away at me. I'm leaving the back right as it is but I think that L. aromatica may just need to go. I'm thinking something taller than HC without incorporating a slope, though.

Glenc said:
if you can keep your hands off it!
Heh. ;)
 
I got the CO2 regulator and pressurized set up, the weeping moss, some C. lutea and some narrow leaf Java fern last week. Planted it on Wednesday and rearranged a little Friday -- the tank is less cloudy today. The whole thing is just so muddy and still takes like three days to settle :( I should use something like Ingg's soil next time. Instead I think I'll pick up something like Florabase or Eco (because one of my LFS has it) to build up the land on top of the existing Aquasoil and terrestrial soil.

Also picked up four kuhlii loaches and 2 more pairs of Dario dario/Scarlett badis. I think I need a dither fish. Celebes rainbows?

Anyway, anyone want pointless update pics from sitting around the tank last night? As some may remember I hate vacuuming my tanks (thats what ground cover and shrimp are for ;) ), so please excuse the mess.

The (Brown?) Spiketail Paradisefish have predictably taken over this cave. The plants peeking out above water is Bacopa australlis, but as you can see this area has low flow so a bunch of free floating plants just collect. Hopefully other stuff grows :)
wherethespiketailslive.jpg


Here's two of the females guarding the thing. When I added 4 more Scarlet badis, they've become more protective, but unfortunately it seems they've also kicked my smaller (submissive) male out of the club.
toalltheladiesintheplacewithstyleandgrace.jpg


Look close: shes at the gap between the rocks left of center.
paradisecave.jpg


This is my dominant male. He hides all day except the early am and sundown, when he chases the girls and the other male when he doesn't just shove his way through whatever he wants. I kind of hoped he would only take one of the females, but instead they both hang out in that cave with him. That's the pond planter thing, too: its like this bag that controts shape. Its exactly what I needed to build up the back.

grumpy.jpg


grumpandoneofhisladies_112808.jpg
 
He's an ugly brown SOB, but I caught him today and hes really beginning to show some blue in the right light:
grumpyout.jpg


grumpsandhislady.jpg


I think this is the same female as the top pic:
female_spiketail_paradise.jpg


You can also see what I'm trying to do with the CO2 diffusor: hide it and make it shut up. Its just a dirt trap in that spot, though -- check it out from the top. Will see how it goes.
diffusor.jpg


Otos!
oto3.jpg


Male and female Dario dario. They are getting more comfy. I wish I could better capture her and his blue/silver.

dariodario.jpg


Another male
dario.jpg
 
Seeing them by Anubias nana petite gives you an idea of how tiny they are:
anotherdariobyanubiasnanapettite.jpg


Look close, by the petite, for a pretty girl:
dariobynanapettite.jpg


An idea from the top. Just left of center. (reflection sucks)
dariofromthetop.jpg


The kuhlis are digging all over the place, which is super cute, and this guy gives you a great idea of how dirty the substrate is. Looks like he has a happy and fun ;) :

sup.jpg
 
Anyway, Aquascaping and ideas... Have you seen An-tiasg's Beta beds using moss on top of suction cup'd soap holders? How awesome will that idea be for this gap just right of the Mexican Orchid, say right at the current water line with some Anubias and moss?

needsbuiltup.jpg


The air plants (bromeliads?) up close
pretty.jpg


bromeliad_dunno.jpg


So my whole aquascaping idea is to have all roads and the eye lead to this spot, then around the tank again, then back to this spot. I have no idea what I am doing:
cave_close.jpg


Here it is while sitting in front of the tank
cave.jpg


And a nice night sitting around the tank.
fromthefloor.jpg


I'm trying to copy the (don't know how else to describe it) collars of Anubias below erupting Java ferns pulled off so nicely by Travis and Glen but instead with the Crypts and narrow leaf fern as the collar, and whatever grows up top as the volcano. The HM to the left and right of the cave are a total factory: I just trim 1" tops and replant them around the tank. I think once grown in the HM will totally save my poor aquascaping.

Hope it grows nice. *shrug* Lets see :)
 
Amazing. Quite beautiful. You've really captured nature and put it in a bottle (well... in a tank). Don''t know how I missed this thread when you first posted it but glad I'm on to it now.

I take it you rely solely on the plants as bio-filters? How often do you plan on PWC - if at all. I imagine you'd be stirring up the mud with a water change.
 
<3

elwaine,

I just reread this post and its babbling, but if I type these thoughts out I save my friends boredom on these wet thoughts coming out randomly over the next week (I don't know how I do that, but it happens), so I understand if you skip. ;) I just like plants and find finding the balance of a setup/system interesting and maybe you do too :)

I am using plants as biofilters, with mechanical media in my filter, though of course some bacteria probably lives on that floss as well. I just trim a lot for nutrient export and think its the best way to keep a planted tank. While I like to dose high P (>2ppm), K, and traces, from your log, I think your and my philosophies with dosing and tank maintenance are similar: for example, I know I've grown R. rotundifolia with available but low (~5ppm) N with wider leaves than mine are now, and that I only got these thin leaves with N or traces limited, and I know HM should be more of a lime green than a yellow green, and that I dose lots of traces already, so I'm pretty sure the ~10ppm NO3 I am dosing every other day isn't cutting it. (But I do not want to dose N too high because I want to stress the Rotalas and get oranges and reds.) I tend to dose high with inorganics and trust that the plants uptake organics released by the fish and dying emersed growth/plants/etc. Like you I like numbers and trends, then stretching my brain to make sense of the result, but I don't measure my tank levels, just my doses.

I change about half the water once a week. I think water changes are important not because of building inorganic NPK levels (I think they are good) but rather to remove TDS and whatever else in our tanks we can't depend on trimming to export. But I don't really know what I'm typing about, just some experience with a handful of tanks. A couple nights a week I'll pull some of the surface water/debris/protein from live foods/etc out with a small cup to water the house plants and top off with whatever bottle of water I'm drinking from, but that's just because I like looking at the tank from the top.

Water changes are not so bad actually -- this time around I'm doing it with a Python and just use an old pot to break it up when refilling. What does muddy the water is planting into the mud or building up the land area. (And feeding bloodworms at the open end of the tank before wiggling the island part a little to scare the fish out before working on it. There's a lot of settled ugliness in that island part.) I think most of the mud elsewhere in the tank have built some mass where it tends not to free float. For example, when cloudy like the pics above but fishless I could throw in a couple handfuls of CaNO3 or KNO3 and the mud would settle in a few hours. (This is how the EPA and horticulturists settle muddy ponds.) Then I did a big water change while having the satisfying feeling that that Ca+, K+, and N+ probably attached to something in the tank and more substrate was more nutrient rich than before. I'm avoiding that now because the fish are too new. I would totally do it and back to back (to back?) >50% water changes and cut NO3 dosing for a week on an established tank with more plant mass, though.
 
Wow, what a great project! The tank is beautiful already and I can only imagine how it will look when everything grows in more. :D


I love the driftwood arrangement. I think some Downoi would look great in front of the wood in the back right corner. And some moss or maybe even more anubias would look great on the driftwood near the left and center.

Great tank!
 
I just reread this post and its babbling

Well keep on babbling because I'm learning a lot from it. :)

I am using plants as biofilters, with mechanical media in my filter,

Good grief! I was so taken with the overall appearance that I didn't even see the green filter tubes until now! (And I made my living by being observant. Good thing for my patients that I retired.)

I tend to dose high with inorganics and trust that the plants uptake organics released by the fish and dying emersed growth/plants/etc. Like you I like numbers and trends, then stretching my brain to make sense of the result, but I don't measure my tank levels, just my doses.

I basically do the same, although this is my first high-light planted aquarium and so I'm still on the steep part of the learning curve. Today my HC stopped pearling. (HC is such a great barometer, as I'm discovering.) And - no surprise - my morning spike in Nitrates remained steady... even after 4 hrs of CO2 @ 30 ppm and lights @ 6 W/gal.

Other than N, the two other rate limiting substances are (I think) phosphorous and potassium. So I dosed P and waited for 2 hours. Nothing. Then I dosed K. Two hrs later the HC were smiling bubbles.
 
So my digital camera is apparently broken, so these cell phone pics are weak. But I think this is the tank's first bubble nest. I am not so sure these guys are Brown Spiketail Paradise (as labelled by LFS) anymore because their snouts seem too big, but per some reading Paradisefish like to build bubbles under submerged leaves and stuff instead of the surface. Is it something else? (Look to the right of the leaf, on the wood.)

bubblenest.jpg


They're still chilling in that mess. Here's the jerk I like so much: I wonder if he built the nest. (Yes, that's totally an old HOB lid propping up that pot. THere's all sorts of stuff back there to take up space :) ) Then this turned into a little photo session.
grumps.jpg


As you may suspect and can see, there's little to no flow back there, and some Cyano/anaeorbic bacteria of some type is in the air pockets below the substrate, around it, and behind the R. rotundifolia. I think this is fine and expected with that kind of sun (its not in the front of thank, for example). The bacteria/cyano exposed to water has actually been beaten back as plants have grown, they used to be higher -- I suspect this is due to O2 saturation. (That's An t-iasg's soap bed idea as planters by the way! There's another superglued to the back trim higher up.)

back.jpg


So I target dose that area with a little extra fert when I dry dose the main tank. C. lutea is happily putting out leaves after some melt with older leaves:

lutea_120708.jpg


And so is C. albida but it wants to turn on itself

albida.jpg


Check out Polygonum sp./"Purple bamboo" about to come out of the water. I have to work to keep the HM away from it, which is making nice runs that will make nice mounds when done I think. This also gives you an idea how bright this tank is and how the tubing goes to the diffusor. No tank lights but accidentally left the moonlight on.

polygonum_indian_wantsout.jpg


Then this is turning a little to the southwest on a wonderful Sunday afternoon (around 4) and snapping a pic right after the above pic. Today was a kind of cloudy day. I fail at cleaning.
la_120708.jpg
 
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And here's three shots that kind of capture my favorite tank :)

pimper.jpg



seclater.jpg


Little brighter
tank_120708.jpg


As you can see I had to rearrange the left side a little (I collapsed some of the structure -- long story -- and decided it was time to shore it up). I also traded quite a bit of Anubias nana petite to a club member for the emergent legit L. brasiliensis/Microsword you see in the first pic of the last post. In retrospect I kind of regret this.

Used some Florabase to cap the mud/Aquasoil/soil craziness. Doesn't match, don't care yet.

And found this super old pic on my phone. It sat like this for quite some time.

workingitout.jpg
 
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