What is my deficiency?

[HiJaC]

Hi,

After getting rid of all my algae issues again (whoops i set the lights to 12 hours and the heater broke) i've been noticing lackluster growth in my new setup.

More alarmingly alot of the plants that were growing without issue have been developing holes in the leaves, white/yellow scar's or spots, and some green spots. The holes and leaf issues are the worst.

Here are some pics.

Healthy Top New Growth

Trouble down below

Urg

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Lights are on for 9 hours a day with roughly 2 wpg in old money.

Using a cut down version of the EI.

Monday - 50% water change, 11ppm N, 7 ppm K.
Tuesday - Trace Mix + Magnesium (its not in the trace mix)
Wednesday -
Thursday - 11ppm N, 7 ppm K.
Friday - as Tuesday
Sat -
Sun -

I was working on some fuzz algae issues a few weeks ago, thinking it was potentially a lack of phosphate in my dosing (which i dont dose as my tap water is SKY high, 5ppm+), and potentially there could be variabilities in the ppm of the tap water per season (with farming etc).

So was adding it for a couple of weeks on my macro days.

But since then I have spoken to scottish water whom told me the phosphate in the water is actually added by them to counteract the effect of lead in the pipes in edinburgh.

So i'm happy to discount the fuzz algae as an effect of my light timer messup. Its cleared up now anyway, and i'm going to stop dosing phosphate again.

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The leaf issues I think are potentially something to do with my trace mix. The new batch i made up is alot darker then the previous batch and I've been dosing less accordingly. But it could just be a colouration thing, and the time it occured there were several other factors (mentioned above) unbalancing things.

Is the leaf damage above related to trace dosing issues?

Thanks,

John

edit - forgot to mention CO2 is pressurised, with a ph probe regulated which i recalibrated again yesterday and was only slightly out, set to ph 6.3. Drop checker with KH4 solution shows me happy at 30ppm.

 

[Purrbox]

I don't see any mention of dosing Potassium. This would be my first suspect since you mentioned small holes that slowly enlarge.

 

[HiJaC]

about 7 ppm on both the macro dosing days.

5ppm of which is from the potassium nitrate, another 2ppm from potassium sulphate.

it was also my first thought so i've been adding another 2ppm beyond that above this week on both the dosing days.

There are white scratch marks about 2mm long ish on the leaves of the tiger lotus (just some, not all) and the type of scarring on the leaves above on some of the crypts too.

 

[Purrbox]

Sorry, I totally missed that. With your description I was thinking you were dosing Nitrates and Phosphates.

Try upping your Potassium dosing to a total of 10ppm (as it sounds like you are already started doing) and see if that helps. Give it at least 2-3 weeks to judge the results. Do you have Test Kits for Nitrates and Phosphates? It would be helpful to be able to check whether either of these is bottoming out.

 

[neilanh]

I can't see the photos at work (firewall), but agree that holes in the leaves is typical of a potassium deficiency.

Do you monitor at all your NO3 levels? That seems like a lot of nitrate to be supplementing, I'd be interested to see what level that drops out to just prior to your next dosage.

I'd add more K to your dosing. It's near impossible to overdose K, so no fear there. If your plants are really thriving and consuming the macros and micros, then it is completely possible you're bottoming out in potassium with only 4ppm dosing.

 

[HiJaC]

Hi,

i've given up on my no3 test kits as its so totally inaccurate below 20ppm. the last test i did i actually calibrated using a method i found on the barr report site.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f24/hair-algae-102022.html#post860511

Basically said that i was approx 20 ppm nitrates 2 days into my dosing week last time i checked. I wouldnt think i was bottoming out.

I thought one of the points of EI was to make sure nitrate stayed above the magic (avoid the cyno bacteria) 10 ppm? last time i got cyno is when i upped from 7ppm to 10 ppm. Never seen it since.

I've been dosing 7ppm K twice a week. I'm going to continue from now on adding 10ppm which would be in line with the nitrate for similar tank levels.

The thing is thou, i've been dosing this way for almost 8 months now and its only in the last month and a bit i've been getting this leaf rot.

Things i've changed in that time are - messing up the light timer - fixed, messing up the heater - fixed and the trace element mix.

Hence i was kinda leaning towards that as the issue...

Rather then holes appearing on healthy leaves its more the leaves start to discolour, get dappled marks, or small white streaks in the case of the red lotus, then start to degrade.

Another thing i should mention in passing, my trace mix has a lack of calcium and magnesium. I dose magnesium seperately. Calcium deficiency?

Thanks again for all your help so far,

John

 

[neilanh]

Hmm, hard to say on the calcium. I can't see the photos until tonight, so that makes it tougher.

As far as your ferts go, the general rule is to dose 10:1:10 nitrate, phosphate, and potassium. It seems like you're pretty close to that. I wasn't thinking the NO3 was dropping out, I was thinking you may be overloading it. I realize that's the purpose of EI to a certain extent, but was mainly just curious what kind of uptake you were seeing.

If you've been stable for a while and the lights all of a sudden stayed on longer per day for an extended period of time, it may be that the extended photoperiod was sufficient enough to cause the plants to uptake a lot more nutrients during this time period. If that's the case, you'll need to give it a few weeks for everything to restabilize back to where it was at 9 hrs/day.

 

[HiJaC]

Hmm, hard to say on the calcium. I can't see the photos until tonight, so that makes it tougher.

As far as your ferts go, the general rule is to dose 10:1:10 nitrate, phosphate, and potassium. It seems like you're pretty close to that. I wasn't thinking the NO3 was dropping out, I was thinking you may be overloading it. I realize that's the purpose of EI to a certain extent, but was mainly just curious what kind of uptake you were seeing.

If you've been stable for a while and the lights all of a sudden stayed on longer per day for an extended period of time, it may be that the extended photoperiod was sufficient enough to cause the plants to uptake a lot more nutrients during this time period. If that's the case, you'll need to give it a few weeks for everything to restabilize back to where it was at 9 hrs/day.

Hi again,

its been a good few weeks since i fixed the light and heater issue. I've actually added some new stem plants last week and its happening on them already.

Its a bit of a head scratcher. I'd add there are green spots on alot of the leaves effected too, in the earlier stages before the discolouration and degredation start. Which is why i did the phosphate dosing the other week for a bit, but since found out that the tap water's high levels have been stable over the same period....

puzzled.

Thanks,

John

A couple more photos...

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj306/hijac101/DSCF1882.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj306/hijac101/DSCF1884.jpg

 

[Purrbox]

If the plants that are showing a difficiency were recently added (last 1-2 weeks), then they are likely showing a difficiency from before you owned them. Give them some time to settle in (at least 2-3 weeks) before determining that it is something in your setup that is the problem.

 

[HiJaC]

Hi,

I'll come back to this in a couple of weeks then...

Interestingly enough i've had the phosphate results from Scottish Water.

Basically show levels of Phosphorus for the last year ranging from 550 (µgP/l), which is 5.5 ppm i think last year. Climbing from the start of this year to highs of 903 (µgP/l) (9 ppm) this month.

But cross referencing to the barr report forums can't see that this very high phosphate level would be causing any negative effects on the plants or fish.

Interesting stuff thou, nice of them to give me the excel sheet too.

Best Regards,

John