my FINAL sump thread
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carey
Aquarium Advice Addict
My b/f was sucking the air out and getting saltwater. I had an awful time keeping siphon too, kept loosing it liek a few times a day.
Put the airline tubing in the arc at the top of the j Tube
Put the airline tubing in the arc at the top of the j Tube
Hey guys,
I get it that the sump needs to have enough room to allow water to drain in case the power goes out.
But, what if for some reason the siphon breaks and the pump continues pumping?
Also, this may seem weird and may just be my imagination, but it seems like when I did the power outage test, the water reverse-siphoned from the u-tubes in the water out through the water pump?
I get it that the sump needs to have enough room to allow water to drain in case the power goes out.
But, what if for some reason the siphon breaks and the pump continues pumping?
Also, this may seem weird and may just be my imagination, but it seems like when I did the power outage test, the water reverse-siphoned from the u-tubes in the water out through the water pump?
carey
Aquarium Advice Addict
You need to make a hole in the return tube righ above or below the water line, that way the tank wont siphon into the sump from that end.
If youre return pump keeps going it will eventually run dry and if you dont have too much water in the sump it shouldnt overflow your tank.
It's a fine balance, I'm always paranoid too. But so far so good. Just gotta get an ATO or get better at refilling the evaporated water cause that will change the dynamic of the sump water levels as well.
If youre return pump keeps going it will eventually run dry and if you dont have too much water in the sump it shouldnt overflow your tank.
It's a fine balance, I'm always paranoid too. But so far so good. Just gotta get an ATO or get better at refilling the evaporated water cause that will change the dynamic of the sump water levels as well.
Smitty
Aquarium Advice Addict
The biggest concern for the siphon breaking and the pump continuing is if the pump empties the sump and the pump runs dry it will overheat and fail.
I think Carey has some kind of pump on one of her overflows to help keep that from happening (a siphon break) plus it helps keep air out of the system. Is that right Carey?
I think Carey has some kind of pump on one of her overflows to help keep that from happening (a siphon break) plus it helps keep air out of the system. Is that right Carey?
carey
Aquarium Advice Addict
I have the CPR continiuos siphon overflow. It will break siphon if the power goes out, it has a small TOM aqualifter pump that keeps the air outta the overflow.
It took me having trouble with my origianl overflow to go and get this one. I havent had an issue since with loss of siphon. When I shut down the system the sump fills just a little bit from the output hose until it looses siphon from the hole I drilled in it.
Yeah, a return pump can and will overheat if theres no water in that compartment. I have a ball valve connected after my return pump so I can adjust the flow as well.
LOL I feel like a pro on this sump thing. It's alot of try and fail to see what happens.
Just keep asking away scott.
It took me having trouble with my origianl overflow to go and get this one. I havent had an issue since with loss of siphon. When I shut down the system the sump fills just a little bit from the output hose until it looses siphon from the hole I drilled in it.
Yeah, a return pump can and will overheat if theres no water in that compartment. I have a ball valve connected after my return pump so I can adjust the flow as well.
LOL I feel like a pro on this sump thing. It's alot of try and fail to see what happens.
Just keep asking away scott.
Ah, so it DOES start siphoning from the return tubes back down into the sump. Hole where? In the directional u-tubes that output water?
So here are my thoughts at the moment... Two possible points of failure..
1) The power goes out or pump breaks. I have tested so that I know where the max water line should be in the return compartment. This allows the water to drain into the sump without flooding.
HOWEVER, the return tube turns into a siphon sucking water from the tank into the sump.. bad. So, I'm hoping this hole i drill (but don't know where yet) will fix it.
2) The siphon breaks. This will pump all of the water in the return compartment, probably about a gallon or two, into the tank. It MIGHT be able to handle it but I am not sure. I guess I will have to see and try not to break my pump lol.
and some other miscellaneous thoughts...
I can't seem to get all of the air out of the overflow box u-tube. There's a bubble always at the top. Is this bad? Is any air bad in there? Perhaps I could put a hole in the very top of that tube and cap it after all the air escapes... hmm. Thoughts?
My heater is too large to fit in my containers. I can fit it in there where it's a couple centimeters away from the walls.. but they are plastic and I'm scared they'll melt. I have a smaller heater, that's rated for 20-30 gallon tanks. Could I swap out my large heater with the small one since it's in a small 4 gallon container (tank is 55g + probably 10g in the sump)?
Also, I'm not quite sure what I want in my middle section. I was thinking sand, rock, and macroalgae. I would need a light for this, yeah? If so, what kind, and can I run it on the timer with my daylights or does it have to be on all of the time?
I think that's about it... so many questions!
So here are my thoughts at the moment... Two possible points of failure..
1) The power goes out or pump breaks. I have tested so that I know where the max water line should be in the return compartment. This allows the water to drain into the sump without flooding.
HOWEVER, the return tube turns into a siphon sucking water from the tank into the sump.. bad. So, I'm hoping this hole i drill (but don't know where yet) will fix it.
2) The siphon breaks. This will pump all of the water in the return compartment, probably about a gallon or two, into the tank. It MIGHT be able to handle it but I am not sure. I guess I will have to see and try not to break my pump lol.
and some other miscellaneous thoughts...
I can't seem to get all of the air out of the overflow box u-tube. There's a bubble always at the top. Is this bad? Is any air bad in there? Perhaps I could put a hole in the very top of that tube and cap it after all the air escapes... hmm. Thoughts?
My heater is too large to fit in my containers. I can fit it in there where it's a couple centimeters away from the walls.. but they are plastic and I'm scared they'll melt. I have a smaller heater, that's rated for 20-30 gallon tanks. Could I swap out my large heater with the small one since it's in a small 4 gallon container (tank is 55g + probably 10g in the sump)?
Also, I'm not quite sure what I want in my middle section. I was thinking sand, rock, and macroalgae. I would need a light for this, yeah? If so, what kind, and can I run it on the timer with my daylights or does it have to be on all of the time?
I think that's about it... so many questions!
Well I figured out most of the questions on my own. 
I did the power outage test. I marked the sump for my max water line while still allowing for drainage water. Then I moved that line an inch lower just to be safe.
I also did the siphon-breakage test. I drilled holes in the tube return line about a quarter inch below the water line. When it is broken it fills up my tank to the brim, but no overflowage and the reverse siphon is broken by the holes. I now know the maximum fill levels for my tank and sump.. pretty cool stuff.
I drilled a hole in the top of the overflow box u-tube. I put airline tubing in that hole and then connected the other end to my power head. No air in there!
The heater is fine, it doesn't touch the containers so it won't melt them.
So.. useless without pictures! Here's my (almost) final sump and i'm proud of it!
Full sump, in action
The water pouring in the last container and my max fill line marked with tape
The overflow box u-tube with airline tubing in it (there's no air in there, that is silicone on the outside of the tube)
And FTS
Now, to figure out what to put in my middle sump container...
I did the power outage test. I marked the sump for my max water line while still allowing for drainage water. Then I moved that line an inch lower just to be safe.
I also did the siphon-breakage test. I drilled holes in the tube return line about a quarter inch below the water line. When it is broken it fills up my tank to the brim, but no overflowage and the reverse siphon is broken by the holes. I now know the maximum fill levels for my tank and sump.. pretty cool stuff.
I drilled a hole in the top of the overflow box u-tube. I put airline tubing in that hole and then connected the other end to my power head. No air in there!
The heater is fine, it doesn't touch the containers so it won't melt them.
So.. useless without pictures! Here's my (almost) final sump and i'm proud of it!
Full sump, in action
The water pouring in the last container and my max fill line marked with tape
The overflow box u-tube with airline tubing in it (there's no air in there, that is silicone on the outside of the tube)
And FTS
Now, to figure out what to put in my middle sump container...
Smitty
Aquarium Advice Addict
Looking great! I love DIY!
carey
Aquarium Advice Addict
Wow scott, excellent job. it looks great! And you figured out all your issues!
Yes, I feel accomplished now.
I put 10 lbs of sand and some macro algae in the middle section. I then bought a clamp light and put a 10 watt 10000k compact flourescent bulb in there. That should be good, right? The container is 4g.
Then I hooked it up to my timer so it is lit during the nighttime when the moonlights are on.
So I guess I'll just bust up some LR to get some rock rubble and i'll be done
I put 10 lbs of sand and some macro algae in the middle section. I then bought a clamp light and put a 10 watt 10000k compact flourescent bulb in there. That should be good, right? The container is 4g.
Then I hooked it up to my timer so it is lit during the nighttime when the moonlights are on.
So I guess I'll just bust up some LR to get some rock rubble and i'll be done
Oh, wow. By lowering the overflow box deeper in the water so the water line is almost at the top of it, it increases the flow A LOT. So much so that I'm going to drill a new drain through the compartments to add another 1" pvc pipe to reduce the force of the flow.
Now the flow is really good (probably maxed out that 300gph rating on the overflow box) and my water pump is maxed out too. I'll also probably remove the airline tubing from the overflow box u-tube because this flow pushes the bubbles out of it. Then i'll get rid of that silly little powerhead I have and use one of the return lines to agitate the surface of the water. That, along with the circulation pumps I just got should give great flow.
And I'm going to finish up the refugium today.
Pictures to come!
Now the flow is really good (probably maxed out that 300gph rating on the overflow box) and my water pump is maxed out too. I'll also probably remove the airline tubing from the overflow box u-tube because this flow pushes the bubbles out of it. Then i'll get rid of that silly little powerhead I have and use one of the return lines to agitate the surface of the water. That, along with the circulation pumps I just got should give great flow.
And I'm going to finish up the refugium today.
Pictures to come!
Smitty
Aquarium Advice Addict
How far down the drain did you put it? I'm having the same problem but can't seem to get rid of all the bubbles. I did put in some airline tubing but not very far.
I only put it about 2 or 3 inches down inside the pipe in the overflow box.
The site I got the idea from said just to experiment until you get it right.
I also read about durso and gurgle buster pipes which I will try if the airline tubing is only a temporary solution.
Right now the biggest noise is the waterfall going to the box on the inside of the tank. Anyone know how to get rid of that?
The site I got the idea from said just to experiment until you get it right.
I also read about durso and gurgle buster pipes which I will try if the airline tubing is only a temporary solution.
Right now the biggest noise is the waterfall going to the box on the inside of the tank. Anyone know how to get rid of that?
Smitty
Aquarium Advice Addict
The only way I know of to help with the noise is to have a shorter fall and/or put the end under the water.
I have the same issue with all the bubbles and it was also recommended to me to put on a T fitting at the last 90 bend down. I may end up just re-building the entire drain end down to the sump to see if it helps.
If I push airline tubing 2-3 inch down into the drain from the top it will be in the water flow, perhaps that is what is needed.
I have the same issue with all the bubbles and it was also recommended to me to put on a T fitting at the last 90 bend down. I may end up just re-building the entire drain end down to the sump to see if it helps.
If I push airline tubing 2-3 inch down into the drain from the top it will be in the water flow, perhaps that is what is needed.
Smitty
Aquarium Advice Addict
I think there is a miss communication. Where is your noise? I thought it was coming from the end in the sump where the water from the tank goes... If it is straight down all the way from the top of the tank then you really can't shorten the fall unless you add in some bends. Mine happens to have bends in it so I can change some things around. I wouldn't recommend dropping your overflow lower.
Ricksreef
Aquarium Advice Addict
Smitty said:
Try putting something flat that will cover the entire top of the overflow box.If that reduces the noise any then go get a piece of glass cut to fit it.It worked on mine,cut the noise way down.
Your build is great,but IMO,you know what they say about opinions,you might won't to revise one thing.
The plastic containers you are using will contract and expand with the weather and pressures inside the containers.I think you will find that you will continue to have problems with leaks and possibly cracks in the containers eventually.
I would suggest replacing them with a an 20 gallon aquarium.You could still cut the sides out of the containers where you have the pipes and insert them in the aquarium to give you your compartments.
I'm sorry and honestly I think that is a concern you should have.
