Sump Media

[KreativJustin]

Hello everyone,

I'm switching from a "wet/dry" style sump to a full wet sump (freshwater). My media bags in the trickle area for the current one are bio balls, some sponge that I cut-up to help seed the tank, old substrate that I had in there that originally helped seed the tank, and some seachem nitrate rocks.. all of these media types are in media bags, just fyi. I slosh them around every 2-3 weeks in a bucket of water that I just took out of the tank.

Should I be switching out any of these, or be adding anything else to my new sump? I have seen a lot of people using the big ceramic square rods.. I just did not know if they were 100% necessary. Do you recommend me trying adding other types?

I'm going to have 3 chambers in the new sump.. incoming (150micron 4" filter sock) then will pass through a 50micron sheet to get to new chamber. I planned on putting my media in this chamber.. then a bubble trap to last chamber where the return pump will be.

I am in the beginning stages of building this, as why I'm trying to get it planned out before I start to silicone (cementing lol) things in place. I overthink everything, so just a heads up.

I have an overly large orlushy heater, so it probably wont fit in sump. It does not fit in my current sump, so its always been in the DT.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Andy Sager]

Just curious, why are you switching to a full wet filter when the wet dry also adds oxygenation to the water just by it's dripping?

 

[KreativJustin]

Just curious, why are you switching to a full wet filter when the wet dry also adds oxygenation to the water just by it's dripping?

It may sound childish, it may not, it is up to you.. 10 years ago when I was in the hobby, I started building a sump because I never had one and could not afford to buy a new one.. then with my wife having my last child at the same time, I shut down the aquariums and focused on the family. I was always kinda disappointed that I never got to finish it. I sold all of the stuff back then, so there is this lingering "you did not finish what you started" feeling.

So that is 1 reason, and here is for the REALLY big reason for me, it just does not fit "me" if that makes sense..

The current wet/dry sump that I have in there is too tall for me, and if I want to mess with anything in the sump, I have to shut down the entire system and take the whole left side apart just to mess with anything in there. So this has been a big frustration on my part. There is only 2 chambers on my current one, and the left water level VERY quickly sits higher than the right and there is no way for it to "overflow" to the other side without me modifying it. I do not mind modifying it to add an overflow hole if the sump gets too high in chamber 1, but then I do not have anything to replace it with if I do accidentally break it when drilling thru. This is my first sump, so I never knew any of these headaches before. This current wet/dry came with a tank I bought. It is a nice system and does a good job, it just a pain in the butt some days.

Now that I am back in the game, I really want to do a sump that fits me. I want to be able to easily stick my arm/hand in the sump and change things out without having to shut down the entire system. I love the DIY method on most things that I do in life, I love the challenge and the knowledge gained when you DIY.

--Edit--
I actually keep 2 sponge filters in the display tank as well, a bit of an overkill, but the fish love them and often use them for coverage and to eat scraps off of. I used to keep one in there while I was seeding the aquarium, but did not want to take them out due to them being loved by the fish.

 

[Andy Sager]

If you are concerned about breaking the partition, you can make a U-shaped tube out of PVC instead so that it siphons the water from one side to the other and will keep both sides level. You stick a piece of airline tubing up there and suck out the air and you have an automatic siphon or you can also install a valve at the top of the U and use that to attach hose to for sucking out the air.
If you are making the filter, you can make it as large or convenient as you want. On my 75, I used a 20 gallon breeder tank and made the dry part short. I had the water drain into PVC that went around the whole dry section as a spray bar instead of a spinning spray bar. Because it was so low, it was easy to lift if I needed to or place things under the eggcrate bottom so the water went through these things. It's just so much better than a full wet system IMO.
If you want, PM me a pic of your filter and maybe we can come up with some good modifications.

 

[KreativJustin]

If you are concerned about breaking the partition, you can make a U-shaped tube out of PVC instead so that it siphons the water from one side to the other and will keep both sides level. You stick a piece of airline tubing up there and suck out the air and you have an automatic siphon or you can also install a valve at the top of the U and use that to attach hose to for sucking out the air.
If you are making the filter, you can make it as large or convenient as you want. On my 75, I used a 20 gallon breeder tank and made the dry part short. I had the water drain into PVC that went around the whole dry section as a spray bar instead of a spinning spray bar. Because it was so low, it was easy to lift if I needed to or place things under the eggcrate bottom so the water went through these things. It's just so much better than a full wet system IMO.
If you want, PM me a pic of your filter and maybe we can come up with some good modifications.

I do use the auto siphon for my overflow up top on the display tank, so I know what you mean there. There is no current way for me to do that in my sump though, the drip tray takes over everything. My current one comes from the flex hose down into a "top cap" that puts the water into a "drip tray" and then there is a "dry gap" that my media goes into, which has an eggcrate bottom. Then below that is just water and goes from the left to the right through a sponge and filter floss that I put down there. My new pump size actually does bring the water level up, so my dry gap is not as big as it used to be. Plus I have to keep the water a little higher up because I do not use lids, so my water evaporates fast. I do plan on building an auto-top off in the new sump, but I'm adding at least 2.5 gallons of water every 2-3 days. I will take a photo tonight if I remember. I do mind using aerators in my aquarium, whether it is in the DT or the Sump, so I'm not 100% trying to use a drip method. I'm going 100% for filtration and ease of use. The drip tray method kills me on my current sump.

 

[Andy Sager]

I do use the auto siphon for my overflow up top on the display tank, so I know what you mean there. There is no current way for me to do that in my sump though, the drip tray takes over everything. My current one comes from the flex hose down into a "top cap" that puts the water into a "drip tray" and then there is a "dry gap" that my media goes into, which has an eggcrate bottom. Then below that is just water and goes from the left to the right through a sponge and filter floss that I put down there. My new pump size actually does bring the water level up, so my dry gap is not as big as it used to be. Plus I have to keep the water a little higher up because I do not use lids, so my water evaporates fast. I do plan on building an auto-top off in the new sump, but I'm adding at least 2.5 gallons of water every 2-3 days. I will take a photo tonight if I remember. I do mind using aerators in my aquarium, whether it is in the DT or the Sump, so I'm not 100% trying to use a drip method. I'm going 100% for filtration and ease of use. The drip tray method kills me on my current sump.

Where there's a will, there's a way.
Send the dimensions of what you want as well as what you have.

 

[KreativJustin]

I've attached a photo of my current sump. I need to clean the filter pad and floss in there, I've been leaving a gap in the filter floss (on the right) so that way when it starts getting clogged my left side wont fill up so quick.

I got my hands on a free 20g long that had a damage frame. I took the top frame off and put some corner supports on it. I test it with water after I took the frame off, I need to test it again with the new corner supports on.

I'm using this baffle kit
https://www.amazon.com/Bubblefin-Aq...657&sprefix=baffle+kit+20+long,aps,138&sr=8-4

I already ordered a 4" sock holder and 2 socks (150 micron). I'm going to use a fine polishing filter pad in the first chamber.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0141HU1AG/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_4?smid=AM2SDMQNPD4V5&th=1

My main question for the new sump is what media should I be using in the middle chamber? I read on forum that the plastic bio balls can actually hold in nitrates, and that they are not always recommended for the sump these days. I've got 200 of these in my current sump.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MYW94XB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

I believe I would still use them at the beginning while the new media gets cycled. I just did not know if I should switch to those ceramic bricks, or to just order some new balls or add a bunch of these..
https://www.amazon.com/Segarty-Aqua...t-supplies&sprefix=sump+media,pets,90&sr=1-12

 

[Andy Sager]

Why not use something like this: https://www.amazon.com/AQUANEAT-Aquarium-Sponge-Filter-Media/dp/B0963NV1PP?th=1 A single block of this would add filtration as well as biological filtration. I know those rings and balls are popular but so many small places can hold too much detritus which is why there can be nitrate issues. A single block foam can be easily cleaned and you can see when it needs cleaning. If you make double layers, you can use a rotation system when the front pad gets cleaned while the back one(s) will be holding the biological and when you clean the front dirty pad, you place it back into the back of the pile so that the water passes through the established pad(s) into the cleaned pad revitalizing it. eazy peazy

 

[KreativJustin]

So just have a couple of those sponges in the middle chamber of my sump instead of other media? Why do they have all of these media types if people can just throw sponges in there. I have also seen people using those little dish cleaning loufa looking things that people get at dollar general for really cheap.

Sumps are still new to me, my old ways were always HOB or Canister.. even in the canister I was still just using the loose carbon and blue pad that was recommended by marineland.. so I am still learning about all of the media types.

I thought even about putting aerator(s) stone pads at the bottom of the middel chamber and putting the media bags on top of an eggcrate about 3/4 off the bottom of the middle chamber. This would help with oxygenation (since I wont have a drip tray) and help keeping water flowing around all of my media types.

 

[Andy Sager]

So just have a couple of those sponges in the middle chamber of my sump instead of other media? Why do they have all of these media types if people can just throw sponges in there. I have also seen people using those little dish cleaning loufa looking things that people get at dollar general for really cheap.

Sumps are still new to me, my old ways were always HOB or Canister.. even in the canister I was still just using the loose carbon and blue pad that was recommended by marineland.. so I am still learning about all of the media types.

I thought even about putting aerator(s) stone pads at the bottom of the middel chamber and putting the media bags on top of an eggcrate about 3/4 off the bottom of the middle chamber. This would help with oxygenation (since I wont have a drip tray) and help keeping water flowing around all of my media types.

Why are there so many different items? Because there is more than one way of keeping fish. Here's the thing, back in 1990s, we had 2,500 gallon marine systems using just DLS material for biological filtration. It was cheap and very effective. DLS material ( Double Layer System), if you don't know, was just a plastic mesh with a padding inside it, rolled up together and the water was sprayed over it so that it trickled down through the padding into the sump. It was all the biological needed to support all the fish in a wholesale house as well as in fish stores. THEN came plastic bioballs. Same concept but in a smaller space. Then came ceramic bioballs because they had nooks and crannies for the bacteria to adhere to. Where they better than the plastic bioballs? I don't believe so but they told a good story. Where either of these better than DLS, not in my opinion. They were just different. As I said, when I did my 75 gallon marine tank, I was still using DLS material even tho the other things were available. Why? Because it works. I had fish in that tank growing up for 7 years and it was only because I was moving that I had to let that tank go.
There are going to be a lot of products on the market that do the same thing only they have different names or appearances. With water companies adding new things to their public water, there may be need for other things that not everybody needs. Here's what I know: there is always going to be the next best thing but in the 50+ years I've been keeping fish, there has not been a product that does something that has never been done before. There are just new ways of doing the old ways to achieve the same goal. Some do it better but most don't. They just do it differently. I've used filter socks and found them to be a pain because they clogged too quickly. I replaced them with filter floss in a pre filter box which was just easier and cheaper to deal with. But people still use socks because somebody somewhere said they needed to. The water splashing off and through the floss was the same effect as the drip tray regarding oxygenation. If you haven't gotten them yet, I would suggest not getting them and just make a prefilter box or layer over your biological filter.
Using a sump is just for a larger area for mechanical and biological filtering than say a HOB or inside filter/ sponge filter. That doesn't mean you need to use different materials in them, just more of whatever you are using. You want an area for mechanical filtration. You want a section for Biological filtration and you want a section for the return pump to get it's water from unimpeded. I like my sumps to have a larger area for biological filtering than the mechanical area since the mechanical needs little to do an effective job. I just used a bag or two of Chemi-pure along with a poly-filter pad ( https://www.poly-bio-marine.com/) . The poly-filter pad removes ammonia, nitrites and nitrates as well as medications and metals and other organics. The Chemi-pure was just as a back up. Now, Poly-filter can be found in a large cut to size pad to help save you money.
So you want to have your pre filter first, biological filter next, mechanical filter next then your open area for the return pump. ( If you put your mechanical filter first, you will deprive the biological filter the ammonia it needs to live. ) You can add an air stone to the return pump area to extra oxygenate the water
but make sure the stone is far enough away from the pump so that the pump does not suck in air. If you put a heater in the sump, I'd just adjust the return in the tank to spray the surface more as the heat will reduce the oxygen content in the water or if that is not possible, put the heater in different section than the airstone and the airstone in the return pump section.

 

[KreativJustin]

I use an eshopps pre-filter (black round sponge) in my overflow (and love it).
Then going to sock (already ordered) and then this pad. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0141HU1AG/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_7?smid=AM2SDMQNPD4V5&psc=1

That would lead to the bio chamber in the middle.

Are you saying these mechanical filters will kill/starve my bio-media in the middle chamber? Is there anything wrong with putting the aerators in the bio-chamber?

I'm not challenging you by any means, just trying to learn.

 

[Andy Sager]

I use an eshopps pre-filter (black round sponge) in my overflow (and love it).
Then going to sock (already ordered) and then this pad. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0141HU1AG/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_7?smid=AM2SDMQNPD4V5&psc=1

That would lead to the bio chamber in the middle.

Are you saying these mechanical filters will kill/starve my bio-media in the middle chamber? Is there anything wrong with putting the aerators in the bio-chamber?

I'm not challenging you by any means, just trying to learn.

The mechanical filters, if they have anything that removes ammonia ( i.e. carbon, poly-filter pad, etc) , will starve out your biological filter because that needs the ammonia to live.

Polishing pads are fine but not always necessary. Personally, if I were using one of these pads, it would be the last thing the water goes through before going to the return pump otherwise it will be collecting larger particles that your other filters should have taken out.

As for where the air stone should go, you get oxygenation by the exchange of gases ( through bubbles bursting) so you want that as close to your return pump section so that that water is better oxygenated.

 

[KreativJustin]

The reason for the 50 micron pad was to help with detritus in the bio-media. I get a lot of detritus buildup in my current sump in the media bags, I was hoping that 50 micron pad would be able to handle that.

 

[Andy Sager]

The reason for the 50 micron pad was to help with detritus in the bio-media. I get a lot of detritus buildup in my current sump in the media bags, I was hoping that 50 micron pad would be able to handle that.

I'd use better filtering materials before it. A pad like that should be for getting the smaller pieces, not the bigger ones.

 

[KreativJustin]

Well I have not ordered any pads yet. I still have some of the filter floss that I currently use in my sump, so I have no immediate need to order any new pads or anything, just trying to figure out how to keep the fine detritus from getting into the bio chamber in the new sump.

This is what I use in my Overflow
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001Q8BKN6/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_10?smid=A1K8COY9WNUVGG&psc=1

I already ordered the socks @ 150 microns.

The detritus I get in my sump currently is all really fine stuff, none of it is heavy, and it gets into all of the media. When I pull it out every 3-4 weeks, it is ridiculously loaded in the stuff, and I rinse it in a bucket of water that I siphon out. When they are rinsed in that bucket, they come out looking new. Maybe it comes in a little large and then breaks down in my sump and gets smaller, but the detritus I have right now is really fine in thickness but clumps together.

 

[Andy Sager]

Well I have not ordered any pads yet. I still have some of the filter floss that I currently use in my sump, so I have no immediate need to order any new pads or anything, just trying to figure out how to keep the fine detritus from getting into the bio chamber in the new sump.

This is what I use in my Overflow
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001Q8BKN6/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_10?smid=A1K8COY9WNUVGG&psc=1

I already ordered the socks @ 150 microns.

The detritus I get in my sump currently is all really fine stuff, none of it is heavy, and it gets into all of the media. When I pull it out every 3-4 weeks, it is ridiculously loaded in the stuff, and I rinse it in a bucket of water that I siphon out. When they are rinsed in that bucket, they come out looking new. Maybe it comes in a little large and then breaks down in my sump and gets smaller, but the detritus I have right now is really fine in thickness but clumps together.

I wouldn't worry about the fine material in the bio chamber because the microbes in there will either eat it or it should pass through if they don't. You just don't want it to get back into the display tank.

 

[Andy Sager]

I found this today and maybe it will give you some ideas: https://youtu.be/edTjd2GdXFI

Take notice where the Purigen is.

I have another way of preventing the sump from overflowing but using a check valve ( one way valve ) on the return line is an excellent idea for preventing back flow.