Why Aren't My Filters Clearing Up the Water?

[Osage_Winter]

Almost from day one, we never had a crystal-clear tank, and now I'm running two filters on a 60-gallon -- an Aqueon QuietFlow 55 and QuietFlow 30 to supplement the 55. Still, with both of these running, we have a constant haze and cloud to our water that doesn't seem to go away.

Could it be possible these filters are just awful?

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Looking back on your threads you've posted to in the last month, my take is that you just haven't given your tank time to come to some sort of equilibrium. Granted, I haven't read everything, and I'm coming at this with *no* freshwater experience (just saltwater)... but it sure sounds like a bacterial bloom to me. That, and the constant addition of "stuff" to the water isn't helping things stabilize. I'm thinking that if you just sit on your hands for a month, the water will clear up - regardless of what brand or size filter you have.

 

[glassbird]

+1 for giving it some time. Somebody once said "nothing good happens fast in an aquarium". And that is so true...

 

[BigJim]

Cloudy water is usually due to a bacteria bloom. The most common cause is overfeeding. Feed only as much as your fish can consume in five minutes. If you see food sitting in the tank, you're overfeeding.

 

[Osage_Winter]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I shall indeed give it some more time then; thank you. This water has been "messed with" -- between medications for a misdiagnosis of Ich, AmmoniaSafe, Stability, Prime etc etc -- even from day one, and it just seemed to me that a bacterial bloom just wouldn't last this long, nor would New Tank Syndrome. Either way, I realize the fish I picked to keep in this aquarium aren't helping the situation with their release of gases and ammonia and such, but I am dedicated to the raising and thriving of these fancytail goldies, and would like them to have crystal clear water to swim in...

As for the feeding suggestion, I really don't overfeed them; they do consume the amount I provide in a couple of minutes or so. I do notice though that there is a storm of debris floating around the tank, mainly their waste products, on a regular basis, and so that's where I am beginning to think these filters aren't doing their jobs of sucking this stuff in...

Would anyone recommend doing a water clarifier at this point, or adding Seachem's Purigen to my filter...or should I just wait?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Purigen can never hurt. I use 500mL in my 55 planted tank (10 times the "recommended" amount) and would never use carbon (unless you're removing meds) because you never know when it's used up and you can't recharge it. Before using it, make sure the tank is med-free though, and only use Prime as other dechlors can foul it.

I haven't read your other threads, but when was the last time you medicated, and what are your current test results?

If you have a lot of waste floating around, I think it's just messy fish, do a thorough gravel vac and do it frequently. Goldies are messy, I would consider a minimum 25% PWC 2-3 times a week, and if you have ammonia/nitrite do a little more even. I do 50% a week on my 55 planted community but just do a surface (1/3 deep) vac to catch excess waste.

Can you describe the cloudiness? Is it just a haze, kind of whitish? Or is it more brownish or greenish? Usually a whitish haze is ammonia bloom, the others are algae bloom. Sounds like a complicated issue with all the other problems you were trying to solve (glanced through the thread)

 

[Osage_Winter]

Purigen can never hurt. I use 500mL in my 55 planted tank (10 times the "recommended" amount) and would never use carbon (unless you're removing meds) because you never know when it's used up and you can't recharge it. Before using it, make sure the tank is med-free though, and only use Prime as other dechlors can foul it.

Thanks Floyd.

I had heard from someone else on another forum that Purigen actually "polishes" the water and can make it seem almost transparent it gets so clear -- and that's what I'm after.

I haven't read your other threads, but when was the last time you medicated, and what are your current test results?

What happened was, I thought we were dealing with a case of Ich on one of my fancytail goldfish, but I believe it ended up just being an indication of a growth spurt as it never spread and no other fish caught it; since then, they have all been okay, so I don't think it was Ich. I treated first with Kordon's Rid Ich which stained everything blue, but then did a 50% water change and began treating with salt and heat. Now, I stopped the heat, so I'm back to just letting the water filter on its own. But the last time I medicated had to be like three weeks ago or so...

If you have a lot of waste floating around, I think it's just messy fish, do a thorough gravel vac and do it frequently. Goldies are messy, I would consider a minimum 25% PWC 2-3 times a week, and if you have ammonia/nitrite do a little more even. I do 50% a week on my 55 planted community but just do a surface (1/3 deep) vac to catch excess waste.

Oh, there's just no way I could endure doing a 25% change two to three times EVERY WEEK; we could barely get the gravel vac and syphon to even work and we always end up doing an old-fashioned change with removing jars of water at a time, and this ends up creating a MASSIVE mess on our carpets.

Can you describe the cloudiness? Is it just a haze, kind of whitish? Or is it more brownish or greenish? Usually a whitish haze is ammonia bloom, the others are algae bloom. Sounds like a complicated issue with all the other problems you were trying to solve (glanced through the thread)

It's a cloudy haze that is definitely not brown or green, so I do not believe it's algae -- it's on the milky white side, suggesting to me it's probably constant ammonia bloom. But it never seems to clear up.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Why are you having problems getting a siphon started? Are you using a python hooked to a sink, or one of the regular hand-held ones? I use both, I have a python that I use on my 55 and most of the time on my 10, and just run it to the toilet or outside, and occasionally I use a regular one on my 10 and just siphon into a 5g Home Depot bucket.

 

[Osage_Winter]

Why are you having problems getting a siphon started? Are you using a python hooked to a sink, or one of the regular hand-held ones? I use both, I have a python that I use on my 55 and most of the time on my 10, and just run it to the toilet or outside, and occasionally I use a regular one on my 10 and just siphon into a 5g Home Depot bucket.

We're using a regular plastic hand held one made by Top Fin, and for the life of us we just couldn't get the darn thing started; it would just not begin sucking up the water no matter how many times we tried.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Is that one of the kind where you are supposed to lift it up and down quickly to get it to start - because it has a little "backflow preventer" valve? I've heard the same issue with that model, theirs doesn't work very well.

I think we're at the root of the problem. You need to (REALLY need to) get a better siphon hose. Get a python or a knock-off if you don't want to carry buckets, or just get a plain-old no-frills siphon and do a DEEP gravel vac.

Your filter (no filter, really) is capable of cleaning the waste from the gravel. You need to do this. If your siphon hose isn't working, then you need to get one that does.

Google this term - Siphon Kleen - this is the basic, easy to use, fool proof siphon and it's less than $10 at almost any pet store. Go buy one today, and do a BIG water change - like over 50% - and get the gravel REALLY good. in a 60g, you will have to put your finger over the end of the hose and slow the flow to let the gravel fall out, or else you'll end up sucking out too much water too fast and you won't get to it all. It takes practice.

I think that is the root of your problem - goldfish + no gravel vac = nasty tank.

 

[Osage_Winter]

Is that one of the kind where you are supposed to lift it up and down quickly to get it to start - because it has a little "backflow preventer" valve? I've heard the same issue with that model, theirs doesn't work very well.

Yes, I believe that's what we're using, and are supposed to do that up and downward motion to get it started, or suck on one end of the tube (which I did and still did nothing to get the water flowing)...

Here's what we have:

Top Fin® Gravel Vacuums - Aquarium Maintenance - Fish - PetSmart

But we have the extra large version...

I think we're at the root of the problem. You need to (REALLY need to) get a better siphon hose. Get a python or a knock-off if you don't want to carry buckets, or just get a plain-old no-frills siphon and do a DEEP gravel vac.

The problem is, the tank is nowhere near a sink -- so I can't use one that attaches to the sink aparatus...

Your filter (no filter, really) is capable of cleaning the waste from the gravel. You need to do this. If your siphon hose isn't working, then you need to get one that does.

What is the point of a filter then, aside from water return?

Google this term - Siphon Kleen - this is the basic, easy to use, fool proof siphon and it's less than $10 at almost any pet store. Go buy one today, and do a BIG water change - like over 50% - and get the gravel REALLY good. in a 60g, you will have to put your finger over the end of the hose and slow the flow to let the gravel fall out, or else you'll end up sucking out too much water too fast and you won't get to it all. It takes practice.

I think that is the root of your problem - goldfish + no gravel vac = nasty tank.

I'll look into what you suggest above and get back to you via this thread. Thank you.

 

[DragonFish71]

Are you still using AmmoniaSafe?

If so, stop. That crap can disrupt cycles by breaking up the ammonia and can have played a part in why your tank is having trouble breaking down the waste causing the bacteria bloom.

And sorry, filters are there to filter water. Even under gravel filters don't filter the gravel, that's where us humans come in.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Oops, typo in my last post but I think you got the point. No filter will remove all the waste from your tank, which is why you have to siphon the gravel. The purpose of the filter is 1) to move water around the tank 2) to perform biological filtration 3) to mechanically filter out particles that make it into the filtration system (this serves the purpose of removal from the tank and protecting the impeller from damage, but ends up trapping the waste and it is still in the system, which is why you periodically clean the filter) 4) to chemically filter the water (carbon, purigen, etc, if you choose to use them).

+1 for what DragonFish71 said. We're keeping fish - or are they keeping us???

 

[Osage_Winter]

Are you still using AmmoniaSafe?

If so, stop. That crap can disrupt cycles by breaking up the ammonia and can have played a part in why your tank is having trouble breaking down the waste causing the bacteria bloom.

No, not using it anymore.

 

[RaptorBro]

it took my tank up to a month to clear up when that happened

 

[Osage_Winter]

When what happened?