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Old 12-08-2008, 08:04 PM   #1
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Exclamation Wigglers in a community tank

OK. I had a pair breed in my community tank when I wasn't paying attention. (been trying for awhile).

Tonight I'm feeding them and notice what I thought was a mean Angel protecting the end of my 95 Gal tank. Looking a little closer I see a piece of driftwood covered with 50-60 wigglers. When one comes loose one of the parents grabs it and puts it back. So coooool!

But am I too late to do anything? I have a spare 20 gal cycled tank (been waiting for this) and could move them. How could I do that and what are the chances they would survive the move?

Or what happens if I leave them? The tank has 3 other Angels of similar size plus tetras and cories along with a large pleco.

Do I just chalk this one up to first timers and watch this pair of Angels for the next go around?

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Old 12-08-2008, 08:31 PM   #2
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Since it is your first I would just wait it out for your secound batch which won't be along time, if you want to move them now, just net them with your fishy net and put them in the 20 gallon, then make sure there is food for them in there.

If you don't want to risk the move just leave them in there and you never know they might survive.

If you want to actually know what to do with them pm me then I will explain the process for you, i'm busy atm.
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Old 12-08-2008, 08:50 PM   #3
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even my neons and other tetras eat all mine
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Old 12-09-2008, 07:09 AM   #4
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Thanks for the replys. I think I'll try and move them if there are any left when I get home tonight. Since they'll probably die anyway, it won't hurt to try and save them.

But now the question is, do I move this pair to the 20 Gal tank, let them lay eggs and then move them back? Or put a PVC pipe in the tank with them (in the end what they seem to have chosen as theirs) and pull it out if they lay eggs on it try the manual fry raising method?

What do most people have the best luck with?
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Old 12-09-2008, 09:46 AM   #5
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Leave them in there and put a piece of slate or PVC pipe, moving them a lot just causes stress on the fish, you don't want that.
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Old 12-09-2008, 01:37 PM   #6
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99% of the time my angel will lay on my filter intake tubes. Luckily I have an XP3 and the intake tubes on that come in sections. I remove the section with the eggs on it. At first I tried moving the section and the parents to the growout/breeder tank. This didn't work. Then I tried only moving the section to the growout. All the eggs got fungus and died. Recently I had success moving the section into a 1/2 gallon glass jar with a heater and an air stone. I've been dosing the container with 1/4tsp of hydrogen peroxide every couple days. I've also been doing roughly 90% waterchanges on the container daily. So far so good, check out my wigglers thread.
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Old 12-10-2008, 02:03 AM   #7
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I had a pair spawn a few years back, after several spawning cycles where the fry would get eaten, we netted them and placed them in a 20 gallon with an air stone and basic filter. One tip though, I noticed that at this stage, they have a tendency to try and hide in the gravel... we had several die because they got stuck! Only 5 out of the 50 or so survived, but it was awesome. The best part was, we had gone on a trip to Mexico, and when we left they were just small little bodies with big black eyes. When we returned a week later, the 5 of them were trying to free swim, and already looked like mini versions of their parents!
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Old 12-10-2008, 10:06 AM   #8
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you can siphon the wigglers out, leave the parents, they're not needed now.
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Old 12-10-2008, 10:53 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nk5566 View Post
One tip though, I noticed that at this stage, they have a tendency to try and hide in the gravel... we had several die because they got stuck! Only 5 out of the 50 or so survived, but it was awesome.
Exactly why the growout shouldn't have gravel.
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Old 12-10-2008, 11:42 AM   #10
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Our 20 gal we moved them into didn't have gravel or any type of substrate...just the plain old glass bottom. It was in our 55 community tank that they got stuck in the gravel, thats why we decided to take out the next batch. That's what I was primarily warning against, that you shouldn't have gravel in the "baby tank".
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Old 12-10-2008, 11:42 AM   #11
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I moved the handful that were left last night to my 20 Gal growout tank (no gravel). But I wasn't sure if the fry still needed protection from the fungus. I thought that was just the eggs so I didn't treat the water with anything.

I'm also not sure what they will eat. I'm trying my first pass at hatching shrimp eggs to feed them live shrimp because I read they only eat moving food. I'll see what happens when I get home tonight.
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Old 12-16-2008, 12:26 PM   #12
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In the end, none of the fry survived as I expected. I did get a batch of shimp hatched. But when I put it them in the tank, the couple of surviving fry at the time swam right by and didn't seem interested.

The breeding pair are acting like they are ready for round 2. I've placed a piece of PVC pipe in their corner and I saw them picking at it last night, so hopefully they will lay the eggs on it.

This time I'm going to try a smaller 5 gal tank to hatch the eggs. It looks like infusoria might be easier to start with for a few days and then start with the brine shrimp. From what I've read you can just take a sponge filter from any tank and squeeze it out to get some infusoria to use for feeding.

What do most of you feed your angel fish fry?
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Old 12-16-2008, 03:15 PM   #13
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We just used TetraMin baby fish food. The brine shrimp didn't really hold their attention at all, but they seemed to enjoy the TetraMin stuff.
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Old 12-16-2008, 03:20 PM   #14
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I fed mine brine shrimp. Mine realized it was food straight off. I had more trouble weening them from it. They seemed bitter when I moved them over to commercial food. haha
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Old 12-16-2008, 06:07 PM   #15
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micro worms and BBS, live food triggers the natural instinct to strike
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Old 12-31-2008, 12:49 PM   #16
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Well so far I've had better luck with round 2. The pair laid the eggs on the filter intake and I just swapped that with a spare one and hatched them in my 5 Gal tank.

Struggled at first with hatching the BBS but finally got that going and moved the free swimmers into the 20 Gal grow out tank soon after. Probably around a 100 or so surviving after 2 weeks. So far so good. In the meantime mom and dad just laid more eggs on a powerhead in the community tank. Going to leave them in there and I guess the fry will become fish food eventually.

Has anybody ever had a pair successfully raise any fry in a community tank? I have other angles in there so my guess they will be the predators who end up eating the fry.
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Old 12-31-2008, 01:01 PM   #17
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I've had fry get to the free swimming stage in a community tank. They all got eaten that same day. haha
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Old 01-06-2009, 09:09 PM   #18
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i dont see a problem with sand though for substitue for gravel. very fine sand though.. keep in a little heat..and give it just a little depth.
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Old 01-08-2009, 06:33 AM   #19
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what we did was move all the other fish out and let the parents do it au naturale. no predators and you get to see the wonderment of parents raising them. Ours took them thru the whole shebang - from wriggler stage to freeswimming tiddlers ( can 'cruise' along in the water but get lost or wobbly and need to be put back in the fold) to fin sprouting able swimmers. Once they get their fins, the parents get a real workout trying desperately to keep all their ducks in a row - the unruly ones are eyed, threatened, backwash fanned, and if all else fails, scooped up like the babies they are and spit back in the group. The parents 'bed them down' for the night in a corner, (we 'leave a light on'- a room light, not a tank light, so they don't lose any in the dark). Once they are past the powdered egg stage, baby brine shrimp excite the fry and teach em to swim fast, and give em some muscle. Before long, you'll be seeing the parent teaching them how to eat from a bloodworm cone. Ours would get a mouthful, and spit it down at the group so they would swim up to the surface to the cone. From there it was fast learning. All told, the happy family stays together roughly about 5-6 months - no cannabalizing!
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Old 01-08-2009, 08:26 AM   #20
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i posted the baby pictures in our photo page...
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