Angel breathing issues

[Reygan2]

One of my angels I've had for quite some time has been hanging near the back corner and acting differently for a few weeks now. He used to be so active and now, although he will eat, he's not very aggressive about it. Most food floats by him. I've searched for outward signs of anything and haven't been able to notice a thing until just now. I noticed that he only seems to be using one side of his gills. The other looks shut tight and after eating or moving much the one he's using is working pretty hard, almost like gasping but not as bad. Flukes? Parasites? Params are great and others are fine. Any ideas for treatment? I have API Gen Cure and Maracyn on hand. Or would medicated flakes work better? This is my most cherished fish

 

[Delapool]

Was he flashing at all before around the gills? I would suspect gill parasites as well and look at a treatment in QT for that. How about ph and temp - has that been stable as well?

 

[Reygan2]

Yeah, ph stays at 7.6 and temp stays at 76F. I've been watching for flashing and haven't seen him do that at all. The only outward sign is that he seems to be getting smaller, and I'm sure he's lost weight. I have my QT tank up and running and I plan to put him in it this afternoon. I just wasn't sure what treatment I should start with. I also have Seachem's paraguard. Not sure how effective it is though.

 

[Delapool]

I can't really comment on the meds as it seems we have a tenth of the range in Australia. Seachem I find quite good in general though.

 

[Reygan2]

I just ordered Hikari prazipro. Anyone with any experience with this?

 

[BBradbury]

Your Fish

Hello Rey...

Haven't kept Angels, but have kept a lot of others. Freshwater Angels have no problem with a little standard aquarium salt in their tank water. A little has many benefits, including improved gill function. Salt has been used for decades as a general health tonic to improve immune system function. May be time to use a little.

I've used it for about 10 years in my planted tanks and a teaspoon or so in every 5 gallons of replacement water has worked well for my fish and my aquatic plants show no negative effects. Granted, most of my fish are livebearing with quite a few Corydoras, but I believe most aquarium fish will benefit from a little.

Just one reporter's opinion. The choice is yours.

B

 

[Caliban07]

Have you altered or done anything differently from the norm lately. Before you go down the meds route and isolate the fish (which could make him worse) has there been any change to the tank internal or external.

Maybe you added wood or crushed coral, missed a water change, changed too much water, reduced/increased filter flow or temperature, added a new fish, changed food. What are the parameters for ammonia nitrite and nitrate? Do you have plants? Have you started using fertilisers? Has the water supplier announced any changes on there website? Try phoning or checking the net. How long have you had this fish? Is there anything at all that might have caused some other underlying stress? What about at night? Are there any incompatible fish that could be attacking it at night?

I had my new angel for a week when all of a sudden it started the dreaded hang of doom. Then I remembered I alter the temp by two degrees and had the filter flow set to max.

Altered them both and back to normal. He's doing great now although a little boisterous when hungry.

 

[Caliban07]

Here he is the little lemon.

 

[Reygan2]

Have you altered or done anything differently from the norm lately. Before you go down the meds route and isolate the fish (which could make him worse) has there been any change to the tank internal or external.

Maybe you added wood or crushed coral, missed a water change, changed too much water, reduced/increased filter flow or temperature, added a new fish, changed food. What are the parameters for ammonia nitrite and nitrate? Do you have plants? Have you started using fertilisers? Has the water supplier announced any changes on there website? Try phoning or checking the net. How long have you had this fish? Is there anything at all that might have caused some other underlying stress? What about at night? Are there any incompatible fish that could be attacking it at night?

I had my new angel for a week when all of a sudden it started the dreaded hang of doom. Then I remembered I alter the temp by two degrees and had the filter flow set to max.

Altered them both and back to normal. He's doing great now although a little boisterous when hungry.

I've had this fish since he was a tiny baby, about a 2 years. He's been through quite a few changes and has been fine until a few weeks ago. I switched the substrate from dirt/eco complete cap to all eco complete months ago and all the fish came through just fine. I dose macros and micros once a week, weekly 30% water changes. The only thing I've done is add twin baby angels several months ago after QTing them and they have grown really fast and are quite bossy. I have worried about aggression and I can't rule it out although I've never seen any. I did separate him for a couple of days and he was able to eat more, but mostly he just stared into the main tank. The QT tank sits right beside it. I felt like I was doing more harm than good, and at that point he was just acting a little strange, not swimming around the tank or eating as ravenously. This is really frustrating.

 

[Reygan2]

Hello Rey...



Haven't kept Angels, but have kept a lot of others. Freshwater Angels have no problem with a little standard aquarium salt in their tank water. A little has many benefits, including improved gill function. Salt has been used for decades as a general health tonic to improve immune system function. May be time to use a little.



I've used it for about 10 years in my planted tanks and a teaspoon or so in every 5 gallons of replacement water has worked well for my fish and my aquatic plants show no negative effects. Granted, most of my fish are livebearing with quite a few Corydoras, but I believe most aquarium fish will benefit from a little.



Just one reporter's opinion. The choice is yours.



B

I also have 2 angelicus botia loaches. Are they ok with salt? I don't really have an argument against using salt, and I know you've had lots of success with it. I have it on hand, I've just never used it. I appreciate your input and I may give it a try.

 

[Reygan2]

Caliban I'm glad yours is back to normal, although I don't see how a slight change in flow or temp would have such an effect. I have an eheim 2213 and 2217 running on this tank, the temp is alway the same when I check it. I keep nitrates less than 20ppm. Since I started fishkeeping several years ago I have lost quite a few angels, but I think that has more to do with local stock. I was told that anyway. Typically when I'd lose one, they'd be fine one day, then gasping at the surface the next, and dead in no time. It happened quickly. I thought it was a parameter issue, but all my other fish would be fine, even GBR's. This angel has been acting weird for a few weeks, which proves it's a different issue. It's been a long time since I've had any die.
Oh, and fwiw, I haven't found a single nip in his fins to indicate aggression. While he doesn't display them now like he is in the pic, they aren't clamped either.

 

[Caliban07]

I've had this fish since he was a tiny baby, about a 2 years. He's been through quite a few changes and has been fine until a few weeks ago. I switched the substrate from dirt/eco complete cap to all eco complete months ago and all the fish came through just fine. I dose macros and micros once a week, weekly 30% water changes. The only thing I've done is add twin baby angels several months ago after QTing them and they have grown really fast and are quite bossy. I have worried about aggression and I can't rule it out although I've never seen any. I did separate him for a couple of days and he was able to eat more, but mostly he just stared into the main tank. The QT tank sits right beside it. I felt like I was doing more harm than good, and at that point he was just acting a little strange, not swimming around the tank or eating as ravenously. This is really frustrating. View attachment 238635

Could be an aggression issue? Particularly at night. Who knows what happens at night? If a fish you have had for that long suddenly becomes Ill then SOMETHING has changed.

 

[Caliban07]

If you were locked in a room with a temperature you were comfortable with then it all of a sudden dropped by 2-3 degrees would you feel comfortable then? You may tolerate it but eventually it would get you down and you would become ill. Same with a room with a slight breeze or constant wind and you have nowhere to go.

In the wild fish have the ability to move to areas of there surroundings where the current is less and the temperature is cooler/warmer. This isn't possible in an enclosed glass case. Minor changes to a fishes environment can have an affect on a fish in the long run. I'm not saying this is the cause but it's worth looking at all possibilities first. Fish have to adjust to all minor changes even on a cellular level. If they can't they get Ill.

Personally I believe quarantining is more likely to make a fish Ill and should only be practiced as a last resort.

As for salt or any other chemical that goes in the water (most of which we have no clue what is in them) can alter the chemistry of the water which will force the fishes osmoregulatory system adapt to find the balance between salts inside there bodies and salts from there surroundings. Sudden and drastic changes Salt concentrations can damage Cells.

Adding salt is an open debate. Whether it is beneficial or not, it is not needed for fish to be disease free and so I don't add it.

 

[Reygan2]

If you were locked in a room with a temperature you were comfortable with then it all of a sudden dropped by 2-3 degrees would you feel comfortable then? You may tolerate it but eventually it would get you down and you would become ill. Same with a room with a slight breeze or constant wind and you have nowhere to go.

In the wild fish have the ability to move to areas of there surroundings where the current is less and the temperature is cooler/warmer. This isn't possible in an enclosed glass case. Minor changes to a fishes environment can have an affect on a fish in the long run. I'm not saying this is the cause but it's worth looking at all possibilities first. Fish have to adjust to all minor changes even on a cellular level. If they can't they get Ill.

Personally I believe quarantining is more likely to make a fish Ill and should only be practiced as a last resort.

As for salt or any other chemical that goes in the water (most of which we have no clue what is in them) can alter the chemistry of the water which will force the fishes osmoregulatory system adapt to find the balance between salts inside there bodies and salts from there surroundings. Sudden and drastic changes Salt concentrations can damage Cells.

Adding salt is an open debate. Whether it is beneficial or not, it is not needed for fish to be disease free and so I don't add it.

Fish can and do adjust to change. My lfs has a ph of 6.8, mine is 7.6. Even with a slow acclimation period, somewhere along the process the fish is exposed to significant change, yet they adjust. Frequent fluctuations are more deadly IMO. I can and have changed my temps with no ill effect, however I'd never do it often. The fact that the other fish are perfectly fine indicates to me that the issue is isolated to the angel and is probably not caused by parameter or tank changes.

I do see both sides of the salt debate, however I can't ignore tried and true testimonies from experienced aquarists who have argued its benefits. I think it is a matter of personal preference.

I've gone over every possible factor that could've contributed to this, and the truth is there are so many variables it may be impossible to narrow it down. So I'm going to move him to QT and medicate. I agree with you, it should be the absolute last resort, but I feel like I'm there. This has gone on too long and I only hope I haven't waited too long. Thank's for your input.

 

[Caliban07]

Fish can and do adjust to change. My lfs has a ph of 6.8, mine is 7.6. Even with a slow acclimation period, somewhere along the process the fish is exposed to significant change, yet they adjust. Frequent fluctuations are more deadly IMO. I can and have changed my temps with no ill effect, however I'd never do it often. The fact that the other fish are perfectly fine indicates to me that the issue is isolated to the angel and is probably not caused by parameter or tank changes.

I do see both sides of the salt debate, however I can't ignore tried and true testimonies from experienced aquarists that have argued its benefits. I think it is a matter of personal preference.

I've gone over every possible factor that could've contributed to this, and the truth is there are so many variables it may be impossible to narrow it down. So I'm going to move him to QT and medicate. I agree with you, it should be the absolute last resort, but I feel like I'm there. This has gone on too long and I only hope I haven't waited too long. Thank's for your input.

Absolutely no problem. Of course fish can and do adjust to change. Especially if the change is gradual. It's usually the during the adjusting period that the fish is at it's most stressed though. Stability, balance and routine is paramount in fish keeping. I just wanted you to just try and think outside the box. You are very right that there are so many factors that can cause problems, both internal and external. Trying to mimic nature in such a small body of water is always going to be different but what is true for one person isn't always the same for the next.

You are obviously pretty smart and have gone through everything.

But remember that just because something has been practiced without problems doesn't mean it is necessary. Until there is an experiment conducted that runs two tanks, one with and one without salt doesn't and the results are observed it's difficult to say. Maybe there has, I haven't looked yet. A freshwater fish is named so because of its environment as is brackish as is saltwater.

Good luck with the meds. I hope the rest of the fish are ok.

 

[Caliban07]

It may seem that I am being arrogant or a know it all but it's not that way. I had many problems when I started up the hobby again. It was after these problems that I studied and researched for about 12 months solid.

It became apparent to me that I had been dosing meds unnecessarily or in cases my fish were Ill is because I had made them ill. My attempts at a planted tank failed and I was told to forget plants in my set up. I studied plants and now I have a jungle of a tank. I have shrimp snails and a thriving community.

My philosophy is that if a fish is happy then they will remain disease free. I was then told that fish don't have emotions and not to be silly.

We do so many silly things (not aimed at you) when we start this hobby and we get overly paranoid and tinker so much that we are actually making things worse even though are best interest are with the fish.

I just try to eliminate all environmental factors first before conceding that the fish needs meds and even then I beat myself up for letting the fish get ill.

 

[Reygan2]

It may seem that I am being arrogant or a know it all but it's not that way. I had many problems when I started up the hobby again. It was after these problems that I studied and researched for about 12 months solid.

It became apparent to me that I had been dosing meds unnecessarily or in cases my fish were Ill is because I had made them ill. My attempts at a planted tank failed and I was told to forget plants in my set up. I studied plants and now I have a jungle of a tank. I have shrimp snails and a thriving community.

My philosophy is that if a fish is happy then they will remain disease free. I was then told that fish don't have emotions and not to be silly.

We do so many silly things (not aimed at you) when we start this hobby and we get overly paranoid and tinker so much that we are actually making things worse even though are best interest are with the fish.

I just try to eliminate all environmental factors first before conceding that the fish needs meds and even then I beat myself up for letting the fish get ill.

Haha I am right there with ya! I did the same thing for just about the same amount of time. I've battled every type of algae there is, as well as problems with cycling, dosing, C02, plants, fish disease and anything else that can go wrong lol. Eight tanks later...I've learned that there is sooo much to learn that I'll never know it all. You do not seem arrogant nor did you come across as a know it all. I have lots of respect for fellow aquarists who take the time to do their own research and are willing to share their experiences and opinions and debate different methods.You are so right too, sometimes we do more harm than good with our overly zealous attempts at perfecting things. I like keeping it simple now. I'm down to 2 low light planted tanks, which is plenty for me. Congrats on finding a balance. Isn't that the best feeling??

Now I have to get this angel well again!

 

[Caliban07]

Sometimes less is more. I have to admit algae is an issue but I kinda like it. It's not really about how beautiful that tank looks. For me it's knowing that the water is safe with a balanced little ecosystem. Although I do use the term balanced loosely. It will still never be a natural environment but as long as the fish are happy that's what counts.

I have a South American cichlid tank and a betta.

 

[Delapool]

Keep us updated on how he goes. Pre-coffee morning here but I can't think of much else it could be reading through. Working in some extra pwc's just in case never goes astray.

 

[Reygan2]

Just got home, and this angel is acting fine now. He's still in the back corner, but he's charging at one of the twins and he rushed out to eat this time. At this point I'm starting to look for eggs! Heck, maybe "he" is a "she". Seriously! Here he is in the back with the other angel that I've noticed is hanging with him more and more.