A couple questions on a new tank setup and PH

[Daisy]

Hi there, I set up a new 8 gallon bowfront aquarium about 3 months ago with fluorite black aquarium gravel, it also has a bio wheel and mechanical filtration built into the hood, and has completed cycling. It currently has 2 goldfish in the tank with an amazon sword all of which seem very healthy, testing the water I get 0.0 readings for ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite a week after the last water change using the seachem master test kit, and a hagen nitrates test kit and I have been doing semi weekly water changes of 40%

One problem I am having is the PH keeps creeping up, my tapwater PH is 7.0, but my tank PH is 7.4 - 7.6 which would cause a problem for many invertabrates right? is my substrate causing this? Will the driftwood I just added help to bring this PH down, as I do not want to have to fight the PH in the aquarium all the time.

Should I be adding fertilizer to the water for the amazon sword, or does the substrate I used provide all the food it needs? What if I added 2-3 more plants, at what point do I need to think about fertilizers for my tank, or do I have to at all when using the seachem black?

The goldfish are coming out shortly, they are in there now to keep the bacteria alive while I was soaking some driftwood, and decide on what fish I wanted, I believe I have settled on a small school of neons, and some invertabrates for clean up, however for algae control, will the inverts also take care of algae, or should I look into a single otto for algae control, as I have some green algae that sort of looks like small hairs growing on my tank walls, heater, and light. Can anyone suggest some good inverts for my sized tank? Ideally I would like a good mix of the freshwater shrimp, and snails, and a freshwater crab if I can find one to tolerate soft water, currently I was thinking of a few red cherry shrimp, a freshwater clam, and a japanese trapdoor snail along with about 5 neons.

 

[meegosh]

What are you using to test your water? With two goldfish in an 8 gallon tank you should have SOME nitrates, if not excessive amounts. The driftwood does lower your pH but in reality you shouldn't be shooting for the 'perfect' pH, just a stable pH. I'm not sure if the substrate is causing your fluctuations or not, others might be able to answer that better.

The algae on your glass sounds like BBA to me, which can be a pain to get rid of. I had it in my 10g tank a few years ago and it took a lot of scrubbing and a 24 hour blackout to get rid of it. Basically grab as much as you can with your fingers. Scrub the decor - out of the tank - with a new, never used toothbrush. I used a dark towel for the black out and didn't peek the whole time, I didn't feed them during the 24 hours either.

Causes of BBA can be excess nutrients, your sword should help a little, too much light, etc.. I think if you just got some root tabs (fertilizers) you would be ok in that set up. Just remember not to bury the crown, as that will kill the plant.

 

[missileman]

If it is BBA you will definitely get it on the leaves of your sword and it is very difficult to get rid of without killing the plant.

 

[asudavew]

I'm not sure how your nitrates are reading zero.
Goldfish are messy messy fish. You might grab a different test kit just to make sure. I have too many goldfish in my tank and nitrates can go over 50ppm in a week! But they are large!

As for the algae.. algae eaters do a pretty good job of keeping the tank clear.

How long is your light on each day?

 

[Daisy]

the algae is growing on the leaves of the amazon sword, its mostly about 1/2 cm in length, but it came off the glass walls rather easy when I used a scraper pad, should I be concerned? I figured something would eat it in the places I cannot get to once I put some inverts or a otto in there. Lights are on a 12/12 cycle with a 13W fluorecent aquarium bulb for planted aquariums

As for the test kit, its a seachem test kit for ammonia, nitrites, PH, and a hagen test kit for nitrates, the results have been verified by a hagen master test kit about a month ago, as I had wondered the same about seeing some sort of reading for nitrates, I will try a different brand for nitrates asap, the goldfish are not even 1", and I have been feeding extremely lightly, could it be that the amazon sword and algae are using up the nitrates? I also had a few other plants (java fern, and a type of grass) but they never made it out of the pots, and they were not doing well so I took them out about 2 weeks ago.

What does it mean by burying the crown?

Any recomendations for a good nitrates test kit?

And thanks to those that took the time to reply

 

[missileman]

The thing about BBA is most algae eaters will not eat it.
My inverts won't touch it either.
I have read that true Siamese algae eaters will take care of it and are suppose to be common but I haven't been able to find any localy. Don't let someone try to sell you a flying fox and claim it is the same thing. It isn't and flying foxes will not eat BBA.
I use API to test nitrate. The API master test kit has amonia, nitrite nitrate and PH tests.

 

[meegosh]

The crown is the part of the plant where the leaf stems meet and then form roots, it is white. You want to make sure half is above the substrate.

The Aquarium Pharmaceuticals API Freshwater Master Test Kit is the kit I use, it is really good. It will test pH, high range pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates. It is about ~$20 and will last you a long time. It is far more accurate than the test strips they sell.

 

[jsoong]

Actually inverts like to have lots of Ca & carbonates in the water, that translates into higher pH. <Mid to high 7's.>

As to why your pH is creeping up - possibly something in the substrate - shells, limestone rocks? Flourite alone should not do that.

The other possibility is your tap water out gassing CO2. This is common in well water (or water from deep aquafier.) To proof that, take some tap water, test its pH & KH. Let it sit & aerate for a day or 2. If the pH increases (and KH is unchanged), then disssolved CO2 in the tap is the cause of the pH increase.

Whatever the reason, if the pH remains stable in your tank, it is just fine & no need to worry about it.

 

[Daisy]

thanks for the advice, I am looking for the API freshwater master test kit, no one seems to have it around here, only the API saltwater master test kit, could it have something to do with the recall I read about a few threads down, and its been pulled temporarily? Is there another brand to recommend for nitrate testing if it has been?

So a PH in the 7.4 - 7.6 range is actually good, as long as its stable? I will test with the tap water tonight, see if I can get the PH to rise as you suggested, as the PH fluctuation has been going on since about a week in after tank startup when there was nothing but the newly rinsed substrate and a few plants, water was treated with seachem prime, and some API stress zyme. Its the seachem fluorite black with no shells, limestone, or rock added, the PH in the tank is stable, its just that the PH was 7.0 of tap water, and then when added to my tank, and let sit for a few days, it would raise to about 7.4 and then stabilize until I do another water change.

One last question I also had that came up, I don't have any kind of air stone in the tank, there is good water movement and circulation just by the filter itself to get oxygen in the water, should I also look into an air stone as well? I don't really like the bubbles in the tank, but if its going to be alot healthier to add an air stone I will.

 

[missileman]

You can buy each test in the master test kit seperately.(they are replacements for when you run out of one test from the master)
The Nitrate test will come with 2 bottles, a test tube, color chart and instructions. Follow the instructions completely, especially the part about shaking bottle #2 for 30 seconds.
Airstone? Aside from adding surface agitation to promote gas exchange it also helps circulate oxygenated water to the bottom of the tank, real important if you have a bunch of bottom dwellers.

 

[Daisy]

I took a few pictures of the algae in question, is it hair algae? its not very long and easy to come off, I am hoping its not! and its something that invertabrates or an otto might eat.

 

[Daisy]

any guesses for the algae? I was going to the lfs today to get another nitrate test kit to test my tank and tap water again.

Also for tank mates once the goldfish come out, I had my heart set on 6 cardinal tetras, has anyone had success putting them in a tank with a ph in the 7.4 - 7.6 range rather than the softer water they like? or would I be best to go with a neon tetra? any other brightly colors readily available aquarium fish that could be suggested that works with inverts and my tank size I would appreciate as well.

 

[missileman]

Its hard to tell but it doesn't look like BBA. BBA is darker.
I have kept Neon Tetras at 7.4 PH and they did well until an Ich outbreak wiped them out. (nothing to do with the PH, more to do with not QTing new fish)

 

[Daisy]

thank you, I was hoping it was not BBA, as it did not look like the pictures I was looking at, so that puts my mind at ease a bit more. Could it be fuzz or green beard algae? seems to most closely match the pictures I can find on the internet.

 

[jsoong]

Does not look like BBA to me. It is likely soft green algae, fairly easy to get rid of.

You do not need an airstone if your filter can create lots of water movement. <That usu. mean using a canister with a spraybar deep in the water ...>

Edit: Skip the canister bit - realized that we are talking about a 8 gal tank (not 80) .... no a good HOB should be fine.

 

[Daisy]

great to hear! I think you might be on to something regarding the tap water sitting and the PH increasing, it has been sitting since morning, and its already increased slightly, so heres hoping thats the cause, I guess I will have to keep some water in a bucket for a few days before a water change to match the PH... easy, things are looking on the up

I am looking forwards to putting some more suitable tank mates in there, I was thinking of 6 cardinal tetras, 3 red cherry shrimp and a freshwater clam if I can find them in my area, and maybe a few snails or 1 otto depending on how my algae goes with what I have, along with my amazon sword and a java fern & moss eventually, what do you think?

I also observed my common goldfish eating the algae off the tank today, they have grown on me, I feel bad having to return them, I think we all know the usual life span of the common gold fish when I return them, but they would just need to big of a tank eventually.

 

[Daisy]

well I am having terrible luck finding a replacement nitrate test kit that is different from the hagen I already have, went to the 3 lfs in my area and they were either out of it, or only carried the hagen, nutrafin and tetra brands, I think I will just bring in a sample of my water for them to test for nitrates until I can find the API freshwater master test kit, might as well get the kit, as its not to much more expensive that the nitrate kit on its own, big als online canada did not even have the freshwater master test kit.

 

[jsoong]

If you are in Canada .... I bought my API kit from PetSmart. <BigAls don't carry API ....> I used to use the Hagen kit - but the nitrate/nitrite kit's color change is rather indistinct & difficult to read. The API is much better.

For mail order in Canada, you might try MOPS:
API master kit for $28
Freshwater Master Test Kit: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals
API nitrate only $8
Nitrate Test Kit: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals

Goldfish, & most other herbivorous fish, will eat soft green algae. That is the most desirable kind of algae you can get. < .... as if ANY algae is desirable! ...>

Unfortunately, commons in lfs are destined to be food for oscars & the like. Maybe you can find a friend's pond to rehouse him in?

 

[Daisy]

Thank you! I did finally find it under the aquarium pharmaceuticals brand in different packaging, is there any difference between this what seems to be older version by aquarium pharmaceuticals, than the new version by API? why the name change?

Also I found a friend with a pond to take the goldfish, so I feel much better! thanks for the suggestion, you have been alot of help.

On another note, I had my water tested today at the lfs, my ammonia and nitrite were at 0, and there was a slight detection of nitrates, if you use the saltwater scale it would have read 5, but still unmeasurable on the freshwater scale. I still personally find this hard to believe as I have two 1" goldfish in an 8 gallon, and they poo alot! Could it be my single amazon sword and a bit of algae is using all those nitrates? What he did find though was my PH was dangerously high at 9.0, I just tested last night and it was 7.0, going down from 7.4 over the past few days I had attributed to me adding the driftwood. My tap water PH also read 7.0 when tersted last night, so I dont think my test kit was wrong since my tapwater has always been 7.0 since the beginning, and I doubt my tapwater is actually 9.0, what do you think? Should I trust him? I am going to do some tests with the API kit tonight when I get home, and triple confirm everything. Maybe did the container that was used to bring the test water to the lfs cause the PH to go up?

 

[Daisy]

I did a full run of tests with both my master freshwater test kits and I got the following results:

API freshwater
PH 7.2
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0 or very slight trace, definetly not even close to 5

Red sea master freshwater test kit
PH 7.0
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0

Hagen Nitrate test kit
Nitrates 0, or again very slight trace

So by these results I would guess I am in really good shape to remove the goldfish soon and start stocking it with my 6 cardinal neons?

And being as there is such few nitrates, and I will be adding a few more plants, I would think some fertilizer is in order? I have heard the red sea brand is the best to get?