A couple questions on a new tank setup and PH

[jsoong]

I wouldn't trust the lfs's reading of 9.0 .... He either has a bad kit, or the water was contaminated en-route.

If your plants are growing, it is possible to see very little nitrates, even with goldfish. My nitrate routinely bottom out (and I have 9 golds from 1-4") unless I add nitrates.

I think you are done with the cycle if you have seen both an ammonia & a nitrite peak. <If not, it is possible that the plants have used up all the ammonia before the bacteria .... so you don't actually have much bacteria in the tank. It is unlikely, tho, with just swords.> To be safe, try feeding the goldfish heavier - like 2-3x a day to bump up the waste level to make sure you don't get any ammonia/nitrite spikes, and also to get a definitive nitrate level.

I wouldn't be fertilizing the plants during the initial cycle, since that will mess with your monitoring of the levels. And even after, if you are sticking with a low tech, no CO2 setup. Fertilizing is not necessary unless there are signs of deficiency. It is Ok to have low nitrates, it just means the plants are using all available nutrients and maybe grow a bit slower. As long as there is a continuing supply or fish poop & the plants are healthy, I would leave it be.

 

[Daisy]

yes my sword is growing nicely, it was quite large when I bought it from the LFS, and in poor shape, so I removed the pot and cut it down quite small so it was mostly healthy new growth leaves about a month ago and planted it in my substrate, and its doubled in size since.

I did get to see my ammonia spike, and nitrate spike, but very minor ones, my readings have been 0,0,0 ever since. I also did have more plants in the tank in the beginning, a java fern, the amazon sword, and a regular fountain plant, but I also had a few more goldfish which were unforuneatly lost . Another thing I find suspect is my bio wheel has not been operating for a while, during this whole time I did not have much for biofiltration, so it seems odd I would be getting such good readings, only last night did I finally get it operating correctly again.

Maybe like you suggested my plants did use most of the ammonia being produced from the goldfish, and whatever was not could have been used by the beneficial bacteria on those live plants that would have been already established, and the small rises of ammonia/nitrites I saw would have been the small leftovers thats the plants did not take up, in which a small colony of beneficial bacteria would have developes to take care of this? Possibility?

My original help thread can be found here:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/a-real-head-scratcher-in-need-of-some-help-110337.html
I also see I never did get back to you on one of the questions in that thread, my lighting is 15W compact fluorecent I believe, its the spiral fluorecent bulb, I was told it would be ok for low light plants? I think the plants died because I left them in thier clay pots while I was waiting for my driftwood to soak and they got rootbound, since my sword has flourished after taking it out of the clay pot.

I will feed them 3 times a day over the weekend, and do some tests, see if I can get some readings, how many days before I should expect some noticeable levels of nitrites or ammonia when over feeding the tank?

 

[jsoong]

A cycled tank should take care of fish waste within hours so you never see any noticeable ammonia or nitrites. If your plants are not taking it all up, I would think that a weekend of heavy feeding should bring up the nitrates.

The test with the heavy feeding is just to establish the capacity of the tank. If you can feed heavily & see no ammonia or nitrite (give it a few days to be sure), then you should be ready for your fish. <Whether it is bacteria or plants that remove the waste is not critical, as long as the waste is removed! And bacteria also lives on surfaces - plant leaves, rocks, etc. not having a biowheel running won't stop cycling.>

A 15W spiral is pretty low light for an 8 gal. But if the plants are growing, that is all that matters. <The wpg rule breaks down in small tanks, & you need more watts compared to the larger tanks.>

 

[Daisy]

my biowheel is also squeeking something awful, its driving me bonkers, am I safe to put a little drop of vegetable oil or something on where it sits in its housing and spins to stop it from squeeking?

 

[jsoong]

I have use plain petroleum jelly to lubricate o-rings & such, it is supposed to be aquarium safe. <Just use a very thin film on the bearing surface, too much will gum up the work ...>

Vegetable oil would be safe as well, but it will prob. get into the water & give you an oily film at the surface.

 

[Daisy]

so after feeding 3 x daily on friday and saturday, I did some tests today and got a 0 for ammonia 0 for nitrites, and 5 for nitrates, this is good right? and tells me my bacteria are present and working? I also have some fattened up goldfish!

My PH however is now reading 6.8 from the red sea kit, and 7.0 from the API test kit, down .2 on both kits from thursday when I last tested so it seems like my PH is still not stable. Could this be my driftwood I added? but before I added it I was still having PH fluctuations but they were higher (7.2-7.4 range), or is there still something in my tank giving me unstable PH? I only have fluorite, an amazon sword, 2 goldfish, and some recently added driftwood in the tank, or is it a possibility my tapwater supply perhaps have an unstable PH? it tests at 7.0 out of the tap, and now 6.8 after sitting a few days with Prime dechlorinator.

 

[jsoong]

Your readings indicate your cycle is completed.... time to pat yourself on the back!

The driftwood might be responsible for the pH drop. I can't say too much since your tap water is also dropping sitting out. Measuring the KH would help sort out what is going on. Generally, if the water is 7.0 out of the tap, there would be little KH & buffering capacity. So any little additional acid (like the driftwood, or CO2 in the air, or even the additional fish waste from the over-feeding) can alter the pH.

IF the KH is low & the pH is unstable, it is advisible to buffer the water. You can add a bit of crushed coral or shells to your tank to bring the KH up to 2-3 degree KH/GH (pH of 7.2 ish). OTOH, you can give it a few days & see if the pH will stabalize at 6.8 (since that seemed to be the pH your tap is settling at) before doing anything.

 

[Daisy]

Thank you Jsoong, you have been a big help! I feel much more confident now than when I left the petshop, and have learned alot so I just wanted to say I really appreciate your help, my husband almost gave up! and now we get to look at a beautiful and properly functioning tank. Unfortuneatly this morning I heard petcetera might be going out of business, and well our tank is a petcetera brand premium tank with the filter built into the hood and not exactly standard dimensions for a hood to replace it either, so I may be out of luck replacing my bio wheel and carbon filters when need be down the road, so I am looking into stocking up now, or trying to find replacements that will work.

I have a rubbermaid storage container that I am using to keep water for a few days before a water change with a heater and air stone in it, I will do PH and KH tests on this straight after I fill it up, and as well as it sits for a few days, as well as my tank, and see if the PH will finally stabilize.

I will have to pick up a test for KH, and over the next few weeks and days keep testing.

 

[missileman]

Look into the Marineland products, they developed the biowheel so that may be an avenue for replacement parts. I would go as far as saying that your hood may be a renamed Eclipse hood.

 

[jsoong]

I have one of those "generic" eclipse as well. You can see if the "real" eclipse parts will fit, and also check out PJ's (if you have one of those around). That's where I got mine & PJ's look just like the Petcetra's.

Generally, you don't need to run carbon in the tank. <Esp. a planted tank, since the carbon will bind the micronutrients that plants need.> Carbon may be used to remove color & meds from a tank, but its effect only lasts a week or so. It is more useful as a place for the biobugs to grow on (as it has a lot of surface area). <In that case, you never replace the carbon!> Most people here only use carbon for a specific purpose & remove it as soon as the job is done.

So, for replacement filter, you can DIY one from coarse foam. You can either buy an appropriatly sized foam filter for the Aqua-clear filter, or get it in bulk from BigAl's. You cut the foam to fit & there's your new filter! <That's what I've been running in my 5 gal "Eclipse". <When you need to run carbon, just buy the carbon loose & put it in a mesh bag & use that in place of one of the foam.>

So no panic ... you can still use your filter even if the store is out of business.

 

[Daisy]

well that puts my mind a bit more at ease, unfortuneatly I cannot find any PJ's around where I am, do they have a website where you can order online? I do have a big als by me, and I believe they carry the eclipse hoods and parts, I will keep my fingers crossed that something may fit, it looks as though it may fit the biowheel from eclipse, but my tank is 8 gallons, where theres are 6 and 12. If I can just locate a few of the biowheels for future use, since from my understanding they do not need to be changed much at all, and that sounds like a good plan for carbon, I may choose to remove it entirely, and use it as suggested when I actually need carbon. Thank you both again