Advice needed on Cycling.

[warthog76za]

Ive started my Fishless Cycle last weekend using some shrimp. Here is just a quick rundown of how far I have gotten.

4 Dec Set up Aquarium, plants and inserted shrimp for the cycle process. Everthing is up and running, heating, air pump and heater (which Ive put on 30°C )
5 Dec Water very cloudy, shrimp has started smell bad throughout living room.
6 Dec Pantyhose with shrimp, now covered with a white fluffy stuff. Smell has somewhat toned down. Did first test:
* Ammonia 0
* Nitrite 0,2
* Nitrate 1,0
7 Dec Water still somewhat cloudy but is clearing up to a degree.
9 Dec Water looks cleaner not clear yet, still a bit cloudy around filter
10 Dec Next test
* Ammonia 0,1
* Nitrites 1,0 (Has spiked drastically over the few days from 0,2 to 1,0)
* Nitrates 1,0

So what should I do next...allow the nitrites to drop naturally or make a small water change to drop the Nitrites a bit???

Also want to add, Im only getting the fish on the 24th Dec...since it is also a gift for my kids, so I'm letting the tank cycle from now till then. Will be getting a few platy's and guppies and still not sure whether to get 1 Pleco or a few ghost shrimp.

Hope I can get the help I need before the buying of the fish, thanks for taking the time to read

 

[Coleallensmom]

I am no expert by any means but since you're doing a fishless cycle, I'd not worry about your NitrItes. You do need to keep the ammonia up however to keep your Tank cycling as the good bacteria you're trying to cultivate needs it to grow.

How big is your tank? Just remember to take it easy with stocking. You don't want to add a lot of fish at one time. Also, be careful with the plecos...some get very large (common plecos), so make sure you know what you're buying if you decide to get one.

 

[Mark Hewitt]

Sounds like far too little ammonia to have a decent impact on getting your bacteria levels up. But don't worry about the nitrites, sounds normal to me.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

You should be getting a lot more ammonia first, then the NitrItes will rise as the ammonia drops off. You're getting the reverse - did you start the tank using some filter media or gravel from an established tank? Either way, rising NitrItes is a sign that your cycle is starting, so that's good.

Also, don't pay attention to the NitrAtes at this point, almost every NirtAte test kit converts NitrAte to NitrIte, then test for that - so if you have any NitrIte present, the NitrAte test is not accurate. You can still test for them if you want to though!

As for doing the fishless cycle, it's OK to let the ammonia go as high as 3-4 ppm, but do a PWC if it goes higher than 4 ppm. As far as NitrIte goes, it never hurts to keep it around 1 ppm, but I wouldn't worry too much about it unless it's been a week and it hasn't changed at all.

 

[warthog76za]

I have a 96 litre tank, I noticed the shrimp is not really upping the ammonia levels but problem I have is, for some reason, pure ammonia isnt freely available here, Ive tried already various hardware stores but none had it (dont understand why) should I try fish food adding fish food as well?

@Turbo The tank has been cycling with shrimps since last Saturday.

 

[Coleallensmom]

You're definitely on the right track and I commend you on attempting fishless cycling- especially when you are having trouble finding an ammonia source. Like I mentioned before, since there’s no fish in your tank I really wouldn't do a water change at all while you're trying to get your cycle going...unless your ammonia readings get to high. Since you're having the opposite problem, you don't need to be concerned with water changes, IMO.

When you see your ammonia level drop to below 1ppm, you really need to increase it back up to as close to 4ppm as you can get it. You could try using Fish food- just keep adding a little every day to keep the Ammonia level up. Your tank will look a mess while it's cycling with all the food floating, but since the majority of your bacteria lives in your filter media and on surfaces such as substrates and ornaments, you can do a BIG water change and rinse your filter material (in de-chlorinated water) to clean everything up when you're finished/before you add fish. Keep your temp up where it is..that should help speed the process up.

 

[ejaramillo01]

Just a thought

Just would like to clarify what you mean for "pure ammonia". The ammonia at the hardware stores is diluted, some are 5% ammonia, others are 10% ammonia. Pure ammonia (100%) is not available.

The important thing is that the diluted one is free from soaps, surfanct agents, aromas, etc. Hopefully this clarification help you to find the ammonia over there.

Maybe not even the diluted is available in Germany.

Edgar

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

If you can find it, the ingredients on the label should not list "surfactant". I don't know how it would be listed in Germany however.

A note on surfactants, all soaps (detergents) are surfactants, but not all surfactants are soap. So it is possible to use ammonia containing surfactants and be OK. But you have to know that it's not a detergent based surfactant. Several people have used the Wal-Mart brand (home life I think) and it works OK. The problem is that if you get the wrong kind, it's 'sticky' and you have to empty your tank and wipe everything down with vinegar and rinse w/hot water like crazy (EVERYthing) and throw away your substrate.

 

[warthog76za]

The ammonia is still at 0,1...Nitrites are still at 8 and Nitrates are at 10, still dont know how Im gonna get the ammonia to really spike. Ive also been throwing in fish food and the inside of the tank does have algae growing, the snails in the tank seem to be thriving LOL, had to net a few so that the tank isnt littered with snails. Tough thing for me is finding ammonia here in Germany, normally hardware stores should stock it but for some reason it is hard to come by...

Should the whole cycling not work since Xmas eve we wanted to get the fish, could I then, say buy something like SAFESTART when I buy the fish???

 

[ejaramillo01]

I did that for my boy's birthday last March, and believe me was the wrong decision, I added all the " recommended" chemicals and we were losing fish right and left.
Was frustrating for my 10 years old, fish were stress and sick, and mainly because trying to cycle with fish requires a ton of PWC and I did not know neither have the time.
I did now the fish less cycle, took me 4 weeks to properly cycle the tank but the results are way different: happy fish, healthy fish, good quality of water with minimum chemicals.

Other people had success with it but not us, my recommendation is to stick with your plan of fish less cycle, unless is Must to have the fish on Christmas.

 

[Gus]

I did that for my boy's birthday last March, and believe me was the wrong decision, I added all the " recommended" chemicals and we were losing fish right and left.
Was frustrating for my 10 years old, fish were stress and sick, and mainly because trying to cycle with fish requires a ton of PWC and I did not know neither have the time.
I did now the fish less cycle, took me 4 weeks to properly cycle the tank but the results are way different: happy fish, healthy fish, good quality of water with minimum chemicals.

Other people had success with it but not us, my recommendation is to stick with your plan of fish less cycle, unless is Must to have the fish on Christmas.

You are totally right, cycling with fish is a very, VERY, frustrating thing to do. I did it once, never again.

I cycled a 55 gallon tank in 4 weeks, and I'm currently into my second week cycling a 10 gallon tank, and I already have like 5 ppm of Nitrites.

The only advice I can give you, is watch out for the PH after the Nitrite spike, mine turned out the water too acidic and stalled the cycling, but I added some baking soda, and I was back in business!

 

[Coleallensmom]

Did you say how big your tank is? Everyone is going to tell you that fishless cycling is the way to go, but if you definitely want fish for Christmas, my advice is this- 1) don't get more than just a few hardy fish to start. Danios, Tiger barbs, White Clouds, even guppies or mollies would be good to choose from. (Some recommend not adding more than about two to three one-inch fish per ten gallons of water in your tank.) If you try to cycle your tank with a large number of fish, there would be a high production of waste, causing stress to the fish as ammonia rises. Your chances of fish death and the risk of disease rises significantly. 2) Be prepared to check your water parameters and to do PWC's often. Yes, even every day (or multiple times per day!) depending on how well your tank responds to ammonia from the fish you introduce.

As far as products like SafeStart, I think you'll find a mixed response on those. IMO, it doesn't hurt to try. If you do, just make sure you follow all the directions and get the largest bottle recommended for your tank. I believe they sell Safestart in a small bottle that treats tanks "up to 30 gallons" and a larger bottle that treats "up to 75 gallons". I seeded my 37 gal with substrate and filter material from a 5 gallon tank I had and then a few days later added the larger bottle of Safestart to the tank. I tested the tank less than 8 hours later and already had 0ppm NitrItes. It took another week for my ammonia readings to reach 0ppm, but I handled that with frequent PWCs.

 

[Mark Hewitt]

I did a with-fish cycle on my first tank and used Black Skirt Tetra, very tough fish with a great personality, but not 'pretty' to look at.

 

[warthog76za]

Did you say how big your tank is?

Its a 96 litre tank which I think is equivalent to 25(?) Gallons. Also wanted to know, say the Nitrite spike doesnt drop by the time I want to actually get the fish, do I make a PWC to then try to drop the nitrite level (if so, how much % water change)???? Since like I mentioned its at its highest point.

 

[Gus]

I would wait for the Nitrites to drop to zero before adding any fish if it was me. Trust me, it sucks to see fishes die (and daily PWC are a chore)

 

[Coleallensmom]

I did a with-fish cycle on my first tank and used Black Skirt Tetra, very tough fish with a great personality, but not 'pretty' to look at.

+1 on the great personality. I actually think my Black skirts are my favorite fish in my community tank. They swim beautifully together and are fun to watch at feeding time.

 

[Coleallensmom]

Its a 96 litre tank which I think is equivalent to 25(?) Gallons. Also wanted to know, say the Nitrite spike doesnt drop by the time I want to actually get the fish, do I make a PWC to then try to drop the nitrite level (if so, how much % water change)???? Since like I mentioned its at its highest point.

Definitely do a big water change right before you get fish. Try to keep your ammonia and NitrIte readings below .25 as anything higher will really start to stress your fish. NitrAtes should ideally be under 20ppm but definitely under 40ppm. Remember to lower your water temp in the tank to an ideal temperature for the fish you buy. (I keep mine at about 75`F.) If you want to give the SafeStart a go, dump that in (I put a good deal of mine right into filter.) and then introduce the fish right away so the bacteria has ammonia to work with. Also, be careful when acclimating your fish to your tank. I always float the unopened LFS bag for at least 20 minutes. Then I add a bit of my tank water to the bag. Float the bag in your tank for 15 minutes or so, and then add more tank water and float the bag again. This will give them more time to adjust to your water conditions instead of just plopping them into the tank as soon as you get home.

Also, Idk what type of dechlorinator you are planning on using but once you add fish and start your testing and water changes, I'd recommend using Prime or Amquel for those PWCs. Both remove Chlorine/Chloramines and Ammonia from your water and help detoxify NitrItes/NitrAtes.

 

[warthog76za]

Also, Idk what type of dechlorinator you are planning on using but once you add fish and start your testing and water changes, I'd recommend using Prime or Amquel for those PWCs. Both remove Chlorine/Chloramines and Ammonia from your water and help detoxify NitrItes/NitrAtes.

Thanks for the advice....Im using Tetra's AquaSafe, pH is ok but as mentioned the ammonia doesnt really want to kick in, just shows slight traces of it but nothing major, will do a test later again, will see if I can photograph the water tests with the colour chart.

 

[Coleallensmom]

Are you still adding fish food?

Aquasafe is just fine for now, especially if you do use Safestart. Most say it's not good to use an ammonia remover with SS anyway because it could take away from it's effectiveness. However, once you start testing daily and doing PWCs to keep your ammonia and NitrItes levels safe for fish, Amquel and Prime can help.

 

[warthog76za]

Just a quick update:
Ammonia : was 0,1 now 0,2
Nitrites : was 1,0 now 0,8
Nitrates: was 1 now 5
pH still a steady 8