Ammonia Burns on Goldfish?

[Arok2092]

Hey all,
My Panda Oranda has started to have a few brown dots appear on his head and one on his left gill. They seem to be a part of his scales, not protruding or anything like that.

A few days ago we saw him caught in the filter and got him loose, but he showed no signs of this then and hasn't gotten caught over there since. Right now the ammonia levels are at 0 but we did do a 50% water change yesterday, and I added water softening salt for the first time in the hopes of preventing parasites (it was the Diamon Crystal Solar Natural brand, I made sure to research good salts for fish tanks before adding it in).

Currently the other fish are showing no signs of illness. Right now we've gone ahead and added Melafix in response to his damaged fins from being caught in the filter.

I really need some advice on what to do. I want to QT him but due to an emergency batch of baby mollies being born and our backup QT tank breaking I don't have any place to put him. So any treatment would affect his whole 55 gallon and tank brethren and I have to be careful.

Brown spots are supposed to be signs of healing, right?

Also, he is still eating but not begging for food like he used to.

Please help with any way we can treat him. He's a cute little goldfish.

 

[jlk]

Can you please post your exact stock along with your parameters, including ph? Water change schedule (%/# wk)? Symptoms? A pic will be helpful as well!

Why are you adding salt? How much have you added? Salt should not be used with goldfish except for medical/treatment reasons. Melafix is a useless product and some fancies will have negative reactions to it. Torn fins or damaged scales will repair themselves with nothing more than lots of pristine water and an excellent diet. Some more info will help us to help you better!

 

[Arok2092]

I'll give you that info as soon as I get off work. Should I be ready to do a water change though? It's a 55 gallon with 4 goldfish. We do about 30% once a week and 50%once a month. I added 2 cups of salt because I've read that it helps to prevent parasites and that you should start off with a larger amount of salt but then decrease it by a lot with each water change.

If you want me to do a water change how much? I'll post pics asap.

 

[Arok2092]

Here is the water stats:

Ammoia: 0

pH: 7.6-8.2

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 5

 

[jlk]

Yes, pics will help as well as your parameters! Test them before a wc and let us know how they read. I would then do a 50-75% water change to help remove the salt. Salt 'preventing' parasites is an old myth. Yes, salt at appropriate levels can help treat ich but you are not dealing with ich. Goldfish are stenohaline fish which means they have little tolerance for salt. Using it long term with fancies will result in serious metabolic, nephric and endocrine damage.

Let's see what is going on with your fish and tank and we can go from there!

 

[Arok2092]

I just a did a 75% water change. Need further directions whenever you got an idea. I also want to point out that a believe he is swelling up and if you remember about a month ago you helped one of my other goldfish fight threw parasites and I want to know if you think it may be related to Avalon's condition.


Poor pics on the way

 

[Arok2092]

Got some more pics coming...

 

[Arok2092]

more pics

 

[Arok2092]

Even more pics

 

[Arok2092]

a few more

 

[Arok2092]

These are the last few

Edit: If it helps, the cluster of brown spots are on his forehead in the center, right where the orange meets the white, and one brown spot on his left gill.

 

[jlk]

Thanks! Are his eyes normally slightly bulging? Can you take a look at him from the top down and let me know if his scales appear at rough or slightly lifted? In a few pics, they appear like they may be but it may just be the angle of the pic.

 

[Arok2092]

It's hard to be certain but I feel that his scales aren't lifted, but my girlfriend believes that they are very slightly raised but sometimes appear normal, and she usually has a better eye for these things than I do. Should we try treating him with API General Cure? If so I can move him into a 3 gallon QT tank.

I will note that since doing the 75% water change he has been a bit more lively, but still isn't normal.

As far as his eyes go we think it's possible they could be slightly bulging, but it's very hard to tell.

Edit: Also, we fasted him for a day, then fed him peas, and now feeding him Metro Med medicated goldfish food. It does seem that one of his sides looks slightly larger and rounder than the other side and am wondering if that could be further signs of parasites?

 

[jlk]

Is this the first day of MM? Treating with both MM and general cure is overkill as it contains metro also. Using the food is always more effective as he is getting the med internally- just be sure he is eating enough. If he is not eating much or not eating, use the general cure instead of the medicated food. It sounds like the wcs have helped as well so extra wcs right now are definitely a good idea. Keep us posted on how he is doing or if anything changes!

 

[Arok2092]

Thanks, I'll do a water change later today. Not much improvement over yesterday sadly and his scales do appear a little rough. However I hand fed him MM this morning so I know he's still eating it.

 

[Arok2092]

Still no significant change either way. He comes up to eat and gets hand fed at least 1 pellet but then goes back to the bottom to rest.

Also, it appears that he's gotten a couple more small brown spots on his spine in between his dorsal fin and tail fin. They definitely weren't there before.

The other goldfish aren't going after him, but if he is in the way they don't mind shoving him around.

 

[jlk]

Ok, do you have anything else beyond a 3g for him? Maybe an empty Rubbermaid/plastic storage type bin? They are $5 or less for a 15-20g one at any big chain or discount store.

A single pellet of MM is not going to do much here. He needs 1-3% of his body weight in food for the med to help. I think he should be moved to qt and dosed with the GC instead if he is not eating much. I am honestly not 100% positive on the spots though. Has he been treated for flukes (very sorry, I do not remember if you prazi'd everyone or only a single fish)?

 

[Arok2092]

Unfortunately I don't even have room for a bin that size. He is very small though so I'll try to feed him 2-3 pellets in the morning and again at night. As it is he eats at least 2 a day. He hasn't been treated for flukes. That was just one fish we put in QT.

If, for instance, we do manage to get a rubbermaid to put him in, wouldn't that still need a filter?

 

[jlk]

Thanks! Ok, I think your easiest option now would be to continue feeding the MM (much more, 3good meals!) and treat the entire tank with prazi. The odd brown spots are likely the result of skin fluke damage which means the tank should be addressed as well as the fish to prevent future problems. You can qt him and switch to GC if he is not eating well but I suggest prazi'ing the main tank, too.

In respect to a filter, its not a must if you do daily big wcs but I would add some type of aeration. Please ask if you have questions!

 

[Arok2092]

When you say Prazi do you mean to use the General Cure? I see that it has Prazi in it. You warned earlier about using both that and Metro Med, and I don't want to misunderstand this. I've called every pet store around me and none have Prazi. Only one has anything that treats flukes but its some kind of pill dissolving form.

Edit: I found some Prazi Pro. I'll start using that.