Angelfish has clamped anal fin

[Vick]

Hi there,

There is something irritating my fish. I had 5 rasyboras (now have 4) and 1 angelfish in a 29gallon tank. The fish that died, actually died from jumping out of the tank. We found it on the floor.
My Angelfish is also very small her body being a little bigger than a Canadian dollar - I think she may be a miniature angelfish - I think she's 2-3 years old. She's showing she's upset because she clamps her anal fin often and hides more than usual. She seems to have a little more difficulty swimming (not a lot) than usual.
I thought they may be getting ich as this seems to happen when the temperature outside changes drastically in the spring and fall. But so far there are no white spots or gold dusting for ich or velvet.
The only difference I've made so far is I added crush coral maybe 3-4 weeks ago because of having KH and PH issues. My PH was 6 or less for more than a month. I added the crushed coral and it's done the trick. It keeps my ph in the 7's, although my KH is still a problem. I don't know if my fish are just not happy with the crushed coral being added. I don't know if they got so used to a low pH that now they are irritated to the normal range of PH?

I first noticed the clamp fin maybe 2 weeks ago? I thought it was because the PH was quite high (8) so I reduced it using Ammo-lock and it got it down to 7/7.2 But now she does it much more often. She also seems scared of me unless she knows I'm going to feed her. She loves being fed.
I do 25% water changes weekly. My next water change would be due in 2 days (this Wednesday)

My water parameters are as follows

Temp 28.5/83
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
GH 75
TA (alkilinity) 40
KH 0
PH 7.2
Ammonia 0

I'm not sure what to do next. I thought perhaps using aquarium salt if it's a pathogen but ive seen mixed reviews of salt hurting angelfish.

Any suggestions? Thanks!

 

[Andy Sager]

If the fish were fine before you added the crushed coral, it's safe to say that that is the culprit. It's not always necessary to alter water chemistry. It all depends on what fish you have in the tank, whether they are farm raised or wild caught, as to what water parameters they should be kept at.
I do see something wrong with your readings as unless you have nitrate absorbing plants or a chemical matrix, you should have a nitrate reading. You should know that a high nitrate level will reduce Ph. Your Kh should also be higher than 0 with the crushed coral. Are you sure you are taking the tests correctly? If possible, take a sample of your water to a local shop to confirm your readings. ( Make them give you the actual numbers and not just an " It's fine" response. )
What are the parameters of your source water? If your source water's parameters are more towards "ideal" where the Ph is neutral and the Gh/KH levels are reasonable, a better way to keep them consistent is to do more frequent water changes than using the coral. Also, better aeration will help keep the Ph up. If there is not a lot of bubbling at the surface, you can add an air stone that makes large bubbles that wi help increase aeration.
Here's another trick with domestic Angelfish, when I started keeping them, I had a dozen in a tank and one day I noticed that they all were facing the back of the aquarium. I asked my Mentor if this was normal and he responded that the problem was Ph. I checked my water and sure enough, the Ph had gone " South" and a water change alone solved the issue. So if your Angels shows no sign of external parasites and continues to hide, it's very possibly a Ph issue. It was changed too rapidly for him/her.

Hope this helps.

 

[Colin_T]

Don't add salt or any medication until we know what is wrong with the fish or the tank's water.

If a fish is not acting normally, then do a partial water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week or until the problem is identified. The water changes and cleaning will dilute any disease organisms or poor water quality and buy you some time to figure out what is wrong.

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Post pictures and video of the fish?
You can upload videos to YouTube, then copy & paste the link here.
If you use a mobile phone to film the fish, hold the phone horizontally so the footage fills the entire screen.

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There's no such thing as dwarf freshwater angelfish. If the fish hasn't grown it either has intestinal worms, gill flukes, isn't getting fed properly, is in too small a tank, or has a genetic defect stopping it from growing normally.

What do you feed the fish and how often do you feed them?

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Angelfish come from water that has an acidic pH (below 7.0 and usually below 6.0) and has little to no GH or KH. If you have other types of soft water fishes, you don't need to add coral or do anything to raise the pH, GH or KH.

What fish do you have?

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If a fish has clamped fins or excess mucous, it is either poor water, something toxic in the water, or an external protozoan infection. Pictures of the fish should help confirm something.

If the water quality is correct, then it is good and that can be ruled out.

Do you use an aquarium plant fertiliser or have anything on your skin (moisturising cream, hand sanitiser residue, perfume, etc) that can wash off in the tank water?

Does anyone smoke, paint, or use any type of aerosol in the room with the fish tank?

Do you have buckets and hoses specifically for the fish tanks?

Where did you get the coral rubble from?
Did you wash it before adding it to the aquarium?

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Ammo-Lock shouldn't change the pH of the water, certainly not from 8.0 down to 7.0. If you did drop the pH from 8 to 7 in one day, I'm amazed you didn't kill all the fish. Sudden pH changes (particularly larges changes) can wipe out entire tanks. If you have to change the pH, you should drop it from 8.0 to 7.8 and water at least one (preferably 2) weeks, then drop it to 7.6 and wait at least a week before dropping it to 7.4 and so on. However, unless you can keep the pH stable at the lower end, you are generally better off leaving it wherever it is and not adjusting it. Fish come from water with different chemistry and it's best to try and match that water, but a stable pH is better than a fluctuating one.

If you do want to have a lower pH for the fish, adjust the pH in a bucket of tap water 24 hours before you use it. If the tank water is 8.0, have a bucket of water with a pH of 7.6-7.8 and use it to do a partial water change on the tank. Make up the same water each time you do a water change and gradually you will lower the tank's pH. When the tank water pH is 7.6, you make the new water have a lower pH and continue the process.

You can lower the pH of the water by filtering it through peat moss. The peat moss is acidic and a small amount in a filter can help lower the pH. Again though it is preferable to lower the pH in a separate bucket of water and get it stable before using it. I used to make up water with different chemistries and let it sit in holding tanks for a week before using it. If you don't have space and don't want water sitting around, make it up 24 hours in advance.

 

[Vick]

If the fish were fine before you added the crushed coral, it's safe to say that that is the culprit. It's not always necessary to alter water chemistry. It all depends on what fish you have in the tank, whether they are farm raised or wild caught, as to what water parameters they should be kept at.
I do see something wrong with your readings as unless you have nitrate absorbing plants or a chemical matrix, you should have a nitrate reading. You should know that a high nitrate level will reduce Ph. Your Kh should also be higher than 0 with the crushed coral. Are you sure you are taking the tests correctly? If possible, take a sample of your water to a local shop to confirm your readings. ( Make them give you the actual numbers and not just an " It's fine" response. )
What are the parameters of your source water? If your source water's parameters are more towards "ideal" where the Ph is neutral and the Gh/KH levels are reasonable, a better way to keep them consistent is to do more frequent water changes than using the coral. Also, better aeration will help keep the Ph up. If there is not a lot of bubbling at the surface, you can add an air stone that makes large bubbles that wi help increase aeration.
Here's another trick with domestic Angelfish, when I started keeping them, I had a dozen in a tank and one day I noticed that they all were facing the back of the aquarium. I asked my Mentor if this was normal and he responded that the problem was Ph. I checked my water and sure enough, the Ph had gone " South" and a water change alone solved the issue. So if your Angels shows no sign of external parasites and continues to hide, it's very possibly a Ph issue. It was changed too rapidly for him/her.

Hope this helps.

So I use the test strips just like they use at the store. They test water using test strips. My strip said 0 KH and 0 nitrite and nitrate. I have the API kit and used that and it doesn't test KH levels.
I think the water changes make it worse. My tap water is 8 and that's way too high for angels and it's been pretty apparent that she doesn't like the PH too high or too low. She seems to be the best at 6.8. so every time I change the water, my ph jumps up to 8 quickly and they become irritated. I had also done many water changes in the past when my ph was super low and the ph would just drop significantly after a day. That's why I added the coral. Since adding it, my ph stays at the same level except when I do a water change and then in goes from a 7.2 to an 8 within a few hours. So maybe it is a pH issue but I haven't been able to determine what's causing the 0 KH and the rapid fluctuations when I change the water. It's been like 2 months of investigating. I thought I solved it with the coral because the PH doesn't drop and stays the same but now my fish are showing signs of distress.
I do have an air stone for my tank.

 

[Aiken Drum]

KH and total alkalinity are pretty much the same thing. The API liquid test for KH is actually a test for alkalinity as they are practically the same thing. You would expect alkalinity to be a little higher than KH, but the bulk of alkalinity will come from KH.

If you are showing alkalinity but no KH then one or the other is wrong.

If your tap water has a high pH, then likelihood is the KH is also on the high side also.

 

[Caliban07]

Ammonia is more toxic at higher pH levels. Adding crushed coral raises pH due to the carbonates in the calcium carbonate structure of coral. if the pH is low enough to begin with, the calcium carbonate coral breaks down and raises the pH until the water is no longer acidic enough to break the coral down. You may have had an ammonia issues at the time of adding the coral that had been ‘cycled’ out by the time you came to measure.

It’s much more likely that the change in total dissolved solids is the culprit as opposed to pH when changing large volumes of water as the sudden change in conductivity can literally cause cells to burst or completely collapse (dehydrate) if the surge is too great and depending on whether the water is moving out of the fish or in to the fish.

In order to keep parameters stable you should either change 50% of the water every week or change no water at all. Both ways work absolutely fine.

 

[Andy Sager]

So I use the test strips just like they use at the store. They test water using test strips. My strip said 0 KH and 0 nitrite and nitrate. I have the API kit and used that and it doesn't test KH levels.
I think the water changes make it worse. My tap water is 8 and that's way too high for angels and it's been pretty apparent that she doesn't like the PH too high or too low. She seems to be the best at 6.8. so every time I change the water, my ph jumps up to 8 quickly and they become irritated. I had also done many water changes in the past when my ph was super low and the ph would just drop significantly after a day. That's why I added the coral. Since adding it, my ph stays at the same level except when I do a water change and then in goes from a 7.2 to an 8 within a few hours. So maybe it is a pH issue but I haven't been able to determine what's causing the 0 KH and the rapid fluctuations when I change the water. It's been like 2 months of investigating. I thought I solved it with the coral because the PH doesn't drop and stays the same but now my fish are showing signs of distress.
I do have an air stone for my tank.

Just for the record, unless you are dealing with wild angelfish, I had an entire Angelfish hatchery with 100 pairs of the domestic fish breeding and producing over 1 million angelfish for the marketplace in water with a Ph of 8.4 and a GH of over 250-300. In my last hatchery, I took Angelfish from tap water with the same parameters as my old hatchery and fish from water with a Ph of 6.6-6.8 and acclimated them both to my local well water with a Ph of 8.2 but a hardness of under 50 and they were producing young every 7-10 days so the fish has become extremely adaptable to various water conditions. If the fish were doing fine, there was no reason to change the water parameters. Chasing parameters will do more harm than good most of the time.

As for your water, have you tested the Ph after letting the water sit overnight? Water Ph will change some from out of the tap.

API does have a hardness test kit that will test both GH and KH. I do not know if that comes in strip form.

Test strips as well as liquid reagents can go bad which is why when something doesn't make sense or look right, it's best to take a sample to another place to confirm your readings.

As per doing your water changes, if your Ph is truly that high and the fish does not like it, you can do smaller water changes daily that will not alter the Ph as much as doing larger ones once a week or 2 weeks will. But before changing your routine, confirm what is really happening.

 

[Vick]

I had my water tested and they got the same results 0 KH.
The fish (angel and rasyboras) look happier and I haven't noticed my angel clamping her fin lately. Maybe it's because the PH has been more stable for a few days after the water change.
As for the Ammo-lock, I've read from multiple sources that it does lower your PH - this is how it makes ammonia less toxic. This also happens every time I use it. It always brings my PH down by quite a bit. Im thinking of maybe adding it to the new tank water to lower the tap water's PH before adding it to my tank so that there is less of a PH fluctuation.
To whoever asked about my Angel, I've had her for 2 or 3 years and she's never grown. Her ventral fins and the long piece of her anal fin grow. But she never gets bigger in size.
I started feeding her Fluval bug bites tropical flakes twice a day about 2 months ago. This food was suggested by the associate at the aquarium store for my angel. She loves them and begs for food when I come close to the glass.
And as for my earlier parameters with the very low PH, my angel wasn't happy and would always have excess mucous on her so I needed to change the PH.

It looks like the culprit is PH fluctuations. Besides using the ammo lock on new water, I'm not sure why my water easily fluctuates so much when it shouldn't.

 

[Andy Sager]

I had my water tested and they got the same results 0 KH.
The fish (angel and rasyboras) look happier and I haven't noticed my angel clamping her fin lately. Maybe it's because the PH has been more stable for a few days after the water change.
As for the Ammo-lock, I've read from multiple sources that it does lower your PH - this is how it makes ammonia less toxic. This also happens every time I use it. It always brings my PH down by quite a bit. Im thinking of maybe adding it to the new tank water to lower the tap water's PH before adding it to my tank so that there is less of a PH fluctuation.
To whoever asked about my Angel, I've had her for 2 or 3 years and she's never grown. Her ventral fins and the long piece of her anal fin grow. But she never gets bigger in size.
I started feeding her Fluval bug bites tropical flakes twice a day about 2 months ago. This food was suggested by the associate at the aquarium store for my angel. She loves them and begs for food when I come close to the glass.
And as for my earlier parameters with the very low PH, my angel wasn't happy and would always have excess mucous on her so I needed to change the PH.

It looks like the culprit is PH fluctuations. Besides using the ammo lock on new water, I'm not sure why my water easily fluctuates so much when it shouldn't.

A 0 KH is why your Ph fluctuates as there is no buffers in there to stabilize it. Also, are you using any CO2? That too will reduce the Ph.
Sadly, quality control has really suffered over the years imo which is why "runts" are in the marketplace. At one point in time, they would not have been. I tried to resurrect the Red Cap line of Angelfish from a Koi Angel which turned out to also be a runt. Sadly, neither was a success.

Ammonia in water with Ph levels below 7.0 converts to ammonium which is far less toxic to the fish. It's only above 7.0 that the ammonia remains toxic. The higher the Ph, the more toxic it gets as Caliban mentioned. As for using the ammo- lock to reduce your Ph for water changes, if it's not long lasting, the water will revert back to a higher Ph. This is the issue with using products like Seachem's PRIME. It only lasts about 48 hours. Muriatic acid or phosphoric acid would probably be a better choice as they shouldn't wear off. Another way of reducing Ph in your replacement water is to use a separate container ( like a trash can) and run a filter with peat moss in it. ( It will take more than 24 hours for the Ph to fall so you would want to start the process for the next water change as soon as you use the water already from the last water change. ) If you do not like the appearance of the tannins that may be produced, you just need to run the water through a carbon filter.
There is another choice and that is to install a Culligan filter ( https://www.culliganwater.com ) which can lower your water's Ph and eliminate any chlorine or chloramine so it's ready to use as is.

 

[Vick]

Thanks for the help so far. Unfortunately my angel started clamping her fins again and now it's been 7 days since my last water change and has been about 4-5 days of constant ph levels - 7.2. I'm not sure why she's doing this. She also has new behavior. After she ate, she clamped her anal fin and then darted and hit the side of the tank (hopefully there's no damage) she then started moving her side fins and top fin rapidly while staying in place and then went and hid for a few moments. After that she went to the top of the tank and then started eating the water bubbles made from my air stone. She blew them back up after eating them so luckily I don't think I need to worry about bloat and swim bladder.
Additionally, I noticed her poop out green poop which I haven't seen before and I don't own any plants.
I'll try to get a photo but she doesn't clamp her fin for long periods of time.

I plan on doing a water change tomorrow (was going to do it today but I burnt my hand cooking).
My current parameters are this

Temp 29
Ph 7.2
KH 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20ppm (used the API test kit this time)
Ammonia 0
I do not use plant fertilizer or CO2.
I use seachem prime and seachem stability when I do water changes.

Any thoughts? Is it possible that it could be lack of sleep? The tank isn't completely pitch black because of a dim light in the room it's in. Could it also be eating too much?
The other rasyboras seem to be acting normal and both them and the angel have healthy appetites.

I just don't understand why the crushed coral could be the culprit when I haven't found anything in Google about crushed coral having negative effects except for the intended higher ph and stable ph. the crushed coral I bought I rinsed and the brand is top fin. It does say it's marine aquarium crushed coral, if that makes a difference. I think I used 1/4 of a cup for my 29 gallon tank.

Do I need to replace my substrate?

Thanks ��

 

[Andy Sager]

If the rasboras are acting normally and the Angel is eating as well, it does not sound like a sickness causing this.
What food are your feeding the fish? Does it have anything green in it? Do you have any decorations or substrate in the tank that is green? ( Sadly, the fish in my avatar died suddenly and when I autopsied it, I found a piece of gravel in it's intestines. THAT was what killed him. )
In order for the fish to stand still, it must move both it's Dorsal fin and Pectoral fins so that is not too concerning. It must have gotten spooked by something in the room to make it dash off like that. As for the night light, there is only a short period of time when the new moon leaves the Earth totally dark so I doubt it's a night light issue. When a fish is sick and "clamps" a fin, it remains clamped. From what you are describing, this sounds like a temporary thing so not really a sickness. It could be just the fish's way of baring down to take a poo. The green poo may be something that was irritating it's innards so hard to pass easily. Are you able to collect that green poo to get a closer look at what it is texture wise?

As for the Crushed Coral, it not only raises the Ph from the calcium carbonate it's made of but adds minerals to the water that the fish absorb. Too many minerals can effect the fish adversely. ( Fish like the Rasboras come from water that is extremely soft so contains minimal minerals.) This is why you have to be careful on which fish you use it with as not all can adapt to the extra minerals. Depending on which fish farm your fish may have come from, they could have come from soft water or hard water. Ones from soft water may not do as well in hard water created by the coral. It sounds like this is not the issue with your fish. When fish do not feel well, they do not eat.
If you can, take and post a video of your fish in action, hopefully before and after it's clamping it's fin. This can help with the diagnosis.