Angelfish with holes in the side and Ancistrus with strange stripes on belly

[Haneli]

I came home from a vacation and found two of my fish had come down with something. It seem to be different illnesses affecting one Ancistrus and one angelfish in different tanks.
First some background. Before I left, I cleaned filters and did a wc about 1/3 of the water in each aquarium. Portioned food for my neigbour to feed the fishes. When I came home all looked good except for two fish that were gone (probably died and got eaten) I did not find any bodies and my neighbour had not seen anyone dead. And the two sick fishes of course (in different tanks). Three weeks had passed since the last wc but there were no nitrite or ammonia in the tanks. A little high phosphate in one tank though (one of the tanks with a missing fish). But let us focus on the two tanks with sick fish.
First the angelfish. It has a few holes, or missing scales on his side. I have treated with Bactopur with no improvement (I have been home for a few weeks so done a few wc and medicated this tank). So what can it be, it has grown a little which makes me think it is not from a fight that I first thought…

The ancistrus. He has stripes underneath which is not his normal pattern, he has also lost wheight. I have him in quaranteen now and have salt in the water. I have never seen anything like this before. He eats which is a good sign but what on earth is this?

Forgot to mention both tank sizes are 300 litres.

 

[Andy Sager]

The hole in the black stripe on the Angelfish does look like a wound from fighting. I would isolate the fish in a separate tank or use a divider if another tank is not available to see if the wound is in fact growing larger from something other than another fish picking at it. At this point, it does not look infected so no med necessary past some salt in the water. If it gets infected, it would have a red or fuzzy appearance on the edge of the wound.
As for the Pleco, I've not seen this condition before. The stripes appear to be in the skin vs on the skin which make me think this happened as the fish was resting on something with edges. I'd get the fish back up to weight ( you said it was skinny from your trip) and see if these go away on their own or get worse. If they get worse while in a bare isolation tank, you have to think more along the lines of internal worms and treat appropriately.

Hope this helps.

 

[Haneli]

The hole in the black stripe on the Angelfish does look like a wound from fighting. I would isolate the fish in a separate tank or use a divider if another tank is not available to see if the wound is in fact growing larger from something other than another fish picking at it. At this point, it does not look infected so no med necessary past some salt in the water. If it gets infected, it would have a red or fuzzy appearance on the edge of the wound.
As for the Pleco, I've not seen this condition before. The stripes appear to be in the skin vs on the skin which make me think this happened as the fish was resting on something with edges. I'd get the fish back up to weight ( you said it was skinny from your trip) and see if these go away on their own or get worse. If they get worse while in a bare isolation tank, you have to think more along the lines of internal worms and treat appropriately.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the answer. I hope it is just from fighting on the angelfish. I have to move it to another tank to salt because I have corys in the same tank. I haven’t seen serious fighting but some fins looks a bit frayed as well. I saw one siamese algaeeater napping at one of the angelfish’s fin once…

When it comes to the ancistrus, at first I thougt fighting but why and would the other guy get away totally un harmed? They have been together for years. Scratches perhaps, but would they not be more in the same direction and not so irregular ?
There are granites, slates and btn backround in the tank, sand and ecs-substrate so nothing really harsh…
Maybe worms then ?? Let’s see if I have some praziqvantel at home. Maybe Axilur (for cats) would work as well…

 

[Andy Sager]

When it comes to the ancistrus, at first I thougt fighting but why and would the other guy get away totally un harmed? They have been together for years. Scratches perhaps, but would they not be more in the same direction and not so irregular ?
There are granites, slates and btn backround in the tank, sand and ecs-substrate so nothing really harsh…
Maybe worms then ?? Let’s see if I have some praziqvantel at home. Maybe Axilur (for cats) would work as well…

Or just on the underside? This is why I doubt fighting. Are the granites and the background all smooth? ( I assume you have an internal background. )

As for the Angelfish, unfortunately, there have been many times when a sucker type catfish or fish attaches to an Angelfish and causes damage. I even caught one in the act one night in my hatchery when I had to go back to it near midnight. Needless to say, no more larger Plecos in with large Angels.

 

[Colin_T]

Slate can have sharp edges, but the lines on the bristlenose look like worms or scratches. No idea why worms would be attaching themselves to the fish but that's what it looks like from the picture.

The bristlenose is looking a bit red on the underside and this can be from poor water quality or dirty substrate or filter.

Can you post some more pictures of both fish and also a video of the bristlenose?
You can upload videos to YouTube, then copy & paste the link here.
If you use a mobile phone to film the fish, hold the phone horizontally so the footage fills the entire screen and doesn't leave black bars on each side.

The angelfish looks like a bite, as Andy said.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

Clean the filter and increase aeration. Then see how it looks in a few days.

 

[Haneli]

Slate can have sharp edges, but the lines on the bristlenose look like worms or scratches. No idea why worms would be attaching themselves to the fish but that's what it looks like from the picture.

The bristlenose is looking a bit red on the underside and this can be from poor water quality or dirty substrate or filter.

Can you post some more pictures of both fish and also a video of the bristlenose?
You can upload videos to YouTube, then copy & paste the link here.
If you use a mobile phone to film the fish, hold the phone horizontally so the footage fills the entire screen and doesn't leave black bars on each side.

The angelfish looks like a bite, as Andy said.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

Clean the filter and increase aeration. Then see how it looks in a few days.

I tried to upload a video, hope it works:
https://youtu.be/QA45DggW2P0
It is in the quarantine tank and there’s not very good light in there.

Also took some more pics of its ordinary tank. Only a few tanganyika in there at the moment. But there’s a small outbreak of diatom algae so something is off even if tests show nothing.

Also add a few more pics of the angelfish and the tank it is in.

 

[Colin_T]

The hole on the angelfish looks very much like a wound. It might have been bitten or caught itself on something but it's not a disease as such. Just an open wound that needs to be monitored and treated accordingly. Clean water and salt usually stops them getting infected. See below for directions on salt.

The bristlenose looks skinny and malnourished in the video. Does he have algae and driftwood to chew on (sorry, not sure if the wood in the video is real or ceramic)?

How often do you feed the bristlenose?
What do you feed him?

If he's fed well, he might have intestinal worms, which are weakening him and this is contributing to the marks on his belly area.

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INTESTINAL WORMS IN FISH
Intestinal Worms like tapeworm and threadworms cause the fish to lose weight, continue eating and swimming normally, and do a stringy white poop. Fish can do this for months and not be too badly affected. In some cases, fish with a bad worm infestation will actually gain weight and get fat and look like a pregnant guppy. This is due to the huge number of worms inside the fish.

You can use Praziquantel to treat tapeworm and gill flukes. And use Levamisole to treat thread/ round worms. If you can't find these medications, look for Flubendazole, which treats both lots of worms.

In the UK look for:
eSHa gdex contains praziquantel that treats tapeworm and gill flukes.
eSHa-ndx contains levamisole and treats thread/ round worms.
NT Labs Anti-fluke and Wormer contains flubendazole.
Kusuri wormer plus (contains flubendazole) - sold mainly for discus, comes as a powder which is quite hard to dose in smaller tanks
Sera nematol (contains emamectin)

Remove carbon from filters before treatment and increase aeration/ surface turbulence to maximise oxygen levels in the water.

You treat the fish once a week for 4 weeks. The first treatment will kill any worms in the fish. The second, third and forth treatments kill any baby worms that hatch from eggs inside the fish's digestive tract.

Treat every fish tank in the house at the same time to prevent cross contamination.

You do a 75% water change and complete gravel clean 24-48 hours after treatment. Clean the filter 24 hours after treatment too.

Do not use the 2 medications together. If you want to treat both medications in a short space of time, use Praziquantel on day one. Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate on day 2 & 3. Treat the tank with Levamisole on day 4 and do a 75% water change and gravel clean on day 5, 6 & 7 and then start with Praziquantel again on day 8.

The water changes will remove most of the medication so you don't overdose the fish the next time you treat them. The gravel cleaning will suck out any worms and eggs that have been expelled by the fish. Repeating the treatment for 3-4 doses at weekly intervals will kill any worms that hatch from eggs. At the end of the treatment you will have healthier fish.

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SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), swimming pool salt, or any non iodised salt (sodium chloride) to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres (5 gallons) of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for 1-2 weeks.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

 

[Haneli]

The hole on the angelfish looks very much like a wound. It might have been bitten or caught itself on something but it's not a disease as such. Just an open wound that needs to be monitored and treated accordingly. Clean water and salt usually stops them getting infected. See below for directions on salt.

I will put him in another tank then. I have corys in there…

The bristlenose looks skinny and malnourished in the video. Does he have algae and driftwood to chew on (sorry, not sure if the wood in the video is real or ceramic)?

How often do you feed the bristlenose?
What do you feed him?

If he's fed well, he might have intestinal worms, which are weakening him and this is contributing to the marks on his belly area.

Yes he does and I noticed that he looks worse now than when I first discovered his condition ? He is in a quarantine tank in the video and he has a plasic cave for hiding and a piece of wood that is real to chew on. A clump of silocon on it because it came from an old scape ? In the ordinary tank there are branches and also driftwood pieces behind the rocks. Some algae in there, but mostly diatoms. Have some different food, see pics. JBL or Tropical wafers. He gets one a day, or a half of tropicas since they are bigger, normally he takes other fish food as well but I suspect he has been eating less in the last weeks because he felt ill. He does eat something when I feed now in quarantine so he is not totally refusing food.

In the UK look for:
eSHa gdex contains praziquantel that treats tapeworm and gill flukes.
eSHa-ndx contains levamisole and treats thread/ round worms.
NT Labs Anti-fluke and Wormer contains flubendazole.
Kusuri wormer plus (contains flubendazole) - sold mainly for discus, comes as a powder which is quite hard to dose in smaller tanks
Sera nematol (contains emamectin)

I got a hold of gdex and have started treatment. So if it works, shold I then treat all tanks? Even if no symptoms?

You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), swimming pool salt, or any non iodised salt (sodium chloride) to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres (5 gallons) of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for 1-2 weeks.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

I added salt; 10 ml/10 litres of water in the quarantine tank. So this means I can double it? I will put the angelfish in his own quarantine tank and also salt there.

Thanks so much for the detailed discriptions ?

 

[Colin_T]

I got a hold of gdex and have started treatment. So if it works, should I then treat all tanks? Even if no symptoms?

Most freshwater aquarium fish from Asian fish farms have intestinal worms (even if they don't show symptoms). If you have enough deworming medication, do all your tanks now so there is no chance of cross contamination. Otherwise treat the catfish and maybe later do the main tank/s.

The Esha gdex treats tapeworm, which isn't as common as thread worms. The Esha ndx treats round/ thread worms and would have my first treatment. However, you can treat for tapeworm then do thread worms after. The fish might respond to the tapeworm treatment.

I added salt; 10 ml/10 litres of water in the quarantine tank. So this means I can double it? I will put the angelfish in his own quarantine tank and also salt there.

Salt is dosed at 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres (1 level tablespoon per 10 litres). I'm not sure if the 10ml of salt is meant to be 10mg (milligrams)?

You shouldn't need to increase the salt for the angelfish's wound. If the wound starts going white and fluffy that is Saprolegnia fungus, or red and inflamed (bacterial), then increase the dose but at this stage, just use the lower dose rate.

 

[Haneli]

Most freshwater aquarium fish from Asian fish farms have intestinal worms (even if they don't show symptoms). If you have enough deworming medication, do all your tanks now so there is no chance of cross contamination. Otherwise treat the catfish and maybe later do the main tank/s.

The Esha gdex treats tapeworm, which isn't as common as thread worms. The Esha ndx treats round/ thread worms and would have my first treatment. However, you can treat for tapeworm then do thread worms after. The fish might respond to the tapeworm treatment.

Ah, well I will finish the gdex cure first. And then try ndx if no improvement. I have to order ndx I think so I have to wait either way Well I will have to wait to see what works for my bristlenose first and then take the other tanks. I have 12 of them so it’s a bit expensive to treat them all if I’m not sure ?

Salt is dosed at 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres (1 level tablespoon per 10 litres). I'm not sure if the 10ml of salt is meant to be 10mg (milligrams)?

You shouldn't need to increase the salt for the angelfish's wound. If the wound starts going white and fluffy that is Saprolegnia fungus, or red and inflamed (bacterial), then increase the dose but at this stage, just use the lower dose rate.

I think it’s the same dosage. A tablespoon is 15 ml (~22g) so a heaped tablespoon are about 20 ml (~29g)
The angelfish already looks better and seems to be fine on its own so I have hope for good healing there

 

[Haneli]

Update:
Good news is that my bristlenose has completely recovered. An ndx cure as well as an antifungal cure. He is back in his main tank since a couple of weeks and is starting to gain weight and boss my Tanganyikas around as always.
Unfortunately the angelfish got worse, she started developing ulcers on her back as well and she died a few days later. Still don’t know what she had.