back flow valves

[gravereaper0]

Alright, let the arguments begin. From what I've been reading so far is that one half of aquarists hate em, and the other always uses them.
The reason I'm thinking about a check valve is because I've decided to use a spray bar for my return. Thinking 10" long, 90° elbow going straight down to a drilled acrylic tube with a sealed up end. I don't want to drill the holes right next to the water surface to prevent agitation to minimize gas exchange (co2 loss), so to prevent syphoning when the pump goes off I'm thinking of using a true union swing check valve from marinedepot.com.
What parts actually fail on these, and since its a fw tank, would that lessen the chance of a failure? Or does anyone have other ideas to break the syphon? Like I said don't want holes near the top. But also I was thinking of drilling a hole in the top of the elbow and inserting and airline into it bent into a U shape so it wouldn't squirt water out and would allow air to get in once the water level drops a bit?
Thoughts, ideas?
Or would a ball check valve be better?
http://m.grainger.com/mobile/details/;jsessionid=91FC6844412729C812E3A59B1FA00934.prlap552?R=6NC62

 

[gravereaper0]

That's odd, nobody has anything to say about check valves?

 

[Gregcoyote]

If a siphon cannot form during a power outage, a check valve would be unnecessary. But if there is any chance of siphoning, I would use one. I have never seen any downside to using them. When using a sump, they are useful to keep your supply lines from becoming returns if the power dies.

 

[T1KARMANN]

I had them on my system and they slowed down the pump power

And when it was needed it would fail

They give you a false sense of security

It all depends on how high you run your sump level and if it can handle the over spill

If its canister you don't need it

 

[Gregcoyote]

You have been buying bad check valves as the good ones don't effect flow at all. Yes, if not maintained they will fail. Otherwise, they can prevent a catastrophe.

 

[T1KARMANN]

You have been buying bad check valves as the good ones don't effect flow at all. Yes, if not maintained they will fail. Otherwise, they can prevent a catastrophe.

Here we go

Like the thread starter stated in his FIRST post he doesn't want to start a big debate

You say they are great I say they are rubbish that should be the end of it

How can you say I had cheap rubbish check valves you don't know me or the items I had

 

[Gregcoyote]

You made a very general statement. They are life savers and have saved my tank countless times. No debate intended.

 

[T1KARMANN]

You made a very general statement. They are life savers and have saved my tank countless times. No debate intended.

If you have that many power outages I take it you must have a large UPS system or generator

I had them on all of my 3 pumps but find it much safer to put a overflow pipe on my sump to drain any back wash

I spent over £8,000 on my tank can you see me buying £1 return valves

Like I said you don't know me or my setup

 

[Gregcoyote]

Same can be said of your knowledge of me. My system has returns under the water surface towards the bottom to blow current from behind the rocks. If my UPS fails and I didn't have a good quality check valve, my tank would drain into the basement. My issue was the broad statement that check valves are a waste of time. Simply not accurate.

 

[gravereaper0]

What kind of check valves are you using and where'd you get em?

 

[Gregcoyote]

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/catalog/product/view/id/1747/

Tear this valve down once a year to keep the internals clean. This valve provides no restriction when it's open. Pressure drives the plunger completely out of the flow. More expensive, but worth it.

 

[gravereaper0]

OK I been looking at those as well. How long have you had your setup running?

 

[Gregcoyote]

+20 years.

 

[T1KARMANN]

Same can be said of your knowledge of me. My system has returns under the water surface towards the bottom to blow current from behind the rocks. If my UPS fails and I didn't have a good quality check valve, my tank would drain into the basement. My issue was the broad statement that check valves are a waste of time. Simply not accurate.

This is true but I never once slagged off the valves you use

Just just took it that just because they didn't work for me they must be cheap

Interesting you say they are great just out on interest how do you back wash your pumps I just flick the power on and off just wondering how you do this

 

[Gregcoyote]

I have the same Iwaki pumps I started with. I put hot tub style strainers on the intakes so they couldn't ingest anything that wouldn't go thru the impeller. I have never back flushed the pumps or done any maintenance on them except keeping the cooling fans unobstructed. Guess I'm lucky, but it turned me into a Iwaki fan.

Certainly didn't mean to say you bought cheap valves. I meant that as recommendation to not buy a flapper style valve over the plunger type. No insult meant.

 

[T1KARMANN]

I have the same Iwaki pumps I started with. I put hot tub style strainers on the intakes so they couldn't ingest anything that wouldn't go thru the impeller. I have never back flushed the pumps or done any maintenance on them except keeping the cooling fans unobstructed. Guess I'm lucky, but it turned me into a Iwaki fan.

Certainly didn't mean to say you bought cheap valves. I meant that as recommendation to not buy a flapper style valve over the plunger type. No insult meant.

I also have strainers on the pumps

But its still good to back wash them every now and then it dislodges any slim you get on the impeller or in the pipes

Plunger or flapper valve they all fail

I have plunger type air non return valves and they have also failed in the past

Air pump non return valves also restrict air flow please don't tell me they don't

Unless the diameter of the pipe you install the valve in isn't changed in anyway then its kind of obvious they will restrict flow to some extent

 

[Gregcoyote]

Yes, but the plunger type keeps the entire pipe open until it closes. It moves into that pocket you see, so it really doesn't restrict flow as the plunger moves back easily.

Haven't used a air pump for a while, but I know what you mean. I always placed mine high over my freshwater tanks for that very reason.

Nothing is perfect. But some things are engineered better than others. And I have a great deal invested in live stock as I am sure you do. I have taken all the precautions I can afford to not have a major collapse due to something as simple as a accidental back flow that empties my tank.

 

[gravereaper0]

Just as I thought, I'll just have to try and see for myself. I'll be getting the 1" wye valve from BRS and check on it once a month during a water change. Also I'll drill a hole in my return pipe just in case. Thx guys for your opinions, and I'm glad it ended well with you two.