Caliban's AquaOpti 85L

[Caliban07]

My point exactly. I've been thinking about it a lot since I need to work out a new dosage for the new tank.

I mean think, the reason why you water change in a non planted tank is because of nitrate hits a high level it's unhealthy for fish and also you will end up with algae.

Now if your plants arnt taking in all this nitrate that your dosing/everything else surely it has to bring on algae over time. I tend to get algae before the second water change on the second week. Now that tells me there is a build up that isn't getting used.

I also don't agree with Barr with his 50% weekly water change. I bet they change the water more than once per week and are just saying 50 weekly because most people are lazy and don't want to water change more than once per week. Even 30% twice a week would be better in my opinion. The cleaner the water at all times the less chance of things falling apart.

I'm not sure. You only have to look at Dennis Wong video on algae and the bottled water experiment at over 100 PAR. Not totally lab controlled but the tap water + EI did not have as much algae as the EI with the dissolved organics virtually zero in fact. What I'm trying to say is nitrate gets a hard rap and I thinks that dissolved organics plays a huge role. High nitrates are a sign of high organics in low tech systems and the water changes are to control organics.

 

[Bert2oo1]

Thank you but really. I am no scientist. I just read everything and it's counter case. No offence to all you lovely people who make the time and effort to participate in my thread but I've been yearning for discussions like this for a long time. [emoji851]

Haha yea I see a few flaws in the system. Many that need to be discussed!

About my other post, they say jealousy is a sin. Well I'm certainly a sinner haha

I'd kill for a proper system like they have

 

[Caliban07]

Haha yea I see a few flaws in the system. Many that need to be discussed!

About my other post, they say jealousy is a sin. Well I'm certainly a sinner haha

I'd kill for a proper system like they have

Me too. It's an art and I'm not an artist. More of a philosopher [emoji23] I have fun though and that is the most important aspect of any hobby in my opinion....ok some times it's not fun, like the time I spilled methylene blue on the wooden floor or the time i swallowed a mouthful of tank water or the time I spend £100s on plants with the Walstad method or the time I........

 

[Bert2oo1]

Haha I know right who would have thought something so frustrating could be so fun at the same timehaha

 

[Bert2oo1]

Anyways, back on topic. I'm actually considering starting with PPS pro on the new tank. Once it's all grown out I'll switch to EI. I just think that due to the low plant mass to begin with, EI will cause me a lot of dramas along the way.

Perfect example would be that video you posted in the beginners thread cal. He says "start by dosing lean" well PPS pro is certainly a lot leaner than EI.

Another example is fresh2o's tank. Now I never see him saying "I've got algae issues growing here and there, GSA on the glass, plants arnt looking to good at the moment.
Now I know he has some really solid experience in the hobby but from what I can tell he doses lean with minimal dramas. Mostly just BBA due to being abit lean on the co2. To be honest his tank is one of the cleanest/algae free tanks I've seen on this forum. A perfect example of how a tank should be.

You've been dosing lower than EI to start with minimal dramas with algae also.

I'm seeing a pattern here, are you?

 

[Caliban07]

Anyways, back on topic. I'm actually considering starting with PPS pro on the new tank. Once it's all grown out I'll switch to EI. I just think that due to the low plant mass to begin with, EI will cause me a lot of dramas along the way.

Perfect example would be that video you posted in the beginners thread cal. He says "start by dosing lean" well PPS pro is certainly a lot leaner than EI.

Another example is fresh2o's tank. Now I never see him saying "I've got algae issues growing here and there, GSA on the glass, plants arnt looking to good at the moment.
Now I know he has some really solid experience in the hobby but from what I can tell he doses lean with minimal dramas. Mostly just BBA due to being abit lean on the co2. To be honest his tank is one of the cleanest/algae free tanks I've seen on this forum. A perfect example of how a tank should be.

You've been dosing lower than EI to start with minimal dramas with algae also.

I'm seeing a pattern here, are you?

Yeah that's what I was referencing earlier about some pros starting lean. I've definitely had issues and at this point I can't quite put my finger on it. I do know what I saw and it has put me off micros for sure. Not macros though.

As for Fresh. His tank has always looked nice to me. I'm sure he's had his fair share of problems though. Maybe at the beginning of his thread as it's some years old. Much more stable. BBA is one of the hardest algae's to get rid of to and is the algae I would like to have least. You would have t ask him. Other than the dwarf sag saga my other plants are fine. New growth looking good. Monte Carlo is fine this time around but as you know I'm lean on micros with just a dusting here and there. I've had a little bit of reassurance with the sag possibly just showing emersed growth. In terms of micros I do think less is more.[emoji846]

 

[Fresh2o]

My gills are burning...
The last few pages have gone over my head. I've have been fortunate enough to strike a balance with my source water, the fixtures I'm using, and modified PPS-Pro ferts. "If it ain't broke...".
My tank has had its share of BBA, GSA, BGA, hair, clado, and staghorn algae. It was definitely a learning process along the way. I've tried not to bite off more than I can chew, however, I feel pretty confident in that if I do step out on a limb, the plants WILL bounce back. I've adjusted my PPS-Pro mix once a few years back and stuck with it. I've used it in heavy and medium planted layouts (though I do recall double dosing when the plant growth was unchecked). The last time I think I tested anything (aside from TDS) was in 2015. Through trial and error I've figured out what works and what does not work in my unique setup. But thanks for the compliments, guys. I really appreciate them.
As for the dwarf sag, I think it looks best in a lower light setting amongst crypts and maybe swords. Not with stem plants. I do have one crown in my Planted tank behind a rock; it is starting to spread. I also have some outside and they've lived a few seasons under winter's ice and and summer's direct sunlight.
I'm enjoying the discussion here; lots to absorb.

 

[KingKoopa512]

My gills are burning...
The last few pages have gone over my head. I've have been fortunate enough to strike a balance with my source water, the fixtures I'm using, and modified PPS-Pro ferts. "If it ain't broke...".
My tank has had its share of BBA, GSA, BGA, hair, clado, and staghorn algae. It was definitely a learning process along the way. I've tried not to bite off more than I can chew, however, I feel pretty confident in that if I do step out on a limb, the plants WILL bounce back. I've adjusted my PPS-Pro mix once a few years back and stuck with it. I've used it in heavy and medium planted layouts (though I do recall double dosing when the plant growth was unchecked). The last time I think I tested anything (aside from TDS) was in 2015. Through trial and error I've figured out what works and what does not work in my unique setup. But thanks for the compliments, guys. I really appreciate them.
As for the dwarf sag, I think it looks best in a lower light setting amongst crypts and maybe swords. Not with stem plants. I do have one crown in my Planted tank behind a rock; it is starting to spread. I also have some outside and they've lived a few seasons under winter's ice and and summer's direct sunlight.
I'm enjoying the discussion here; lots to absorb.

Most definitely ?. And fresh ur tank is nice. Always

 

[Bert2oo1]

I mean I shouldn't really rag on EI as it is a great system and I've had pretty dam good success with it. So has cal and many others. Biggest issue and on going battle has been BBA but I'm hoping this doesn't make it into the 60. BBA started from DIY co2 and then never left.
Other than that it's only been abit of GSA on the glass here and there.

Just like fresh said its just a matter of finding what works perfectly for your tank.

Hardest part is all the conflicting info you read. Some say add more iron, some say add more phosphate, some say your lean on kno3. Because nutrient definciency can be in so many similar forms it's hard to pin point exactly what is causing the issue.

Do you have any algae issues at the moment cal? Any GSA or hair algae?

 

[Autumnsky]

Somehow I missed about 35 posts in a very short time!!!

This is very interesting info and as of yet personally I haven't used CO2 or the fert systems.

Key information in the whole bit was touched on earlier, is how different every members tanks are, light, water, CO2, Fert dosing, water changing, other maintenance, and even which plants are in there!
~~~

Your tank is newly set up and when you get new plants from vendors you can't be sure how they were grown immersed and how they were cared for in terms of light, water and ferts, especially plants you are not familiar with growing will be a little more of a challenge, while you get used to their settling into your tank.

Engaging discussion!

 

[fishenthusiast]

I personally didn't like EI when I was running a high light, high maintenance build. Huge water changes and algae was an issue at times (I probably should've performed two weekly water changes). PPS-Pro works better for me, but the variables of tank conditions doesn't allow for one to recreate a fertilization method for everyone. My problem with high light was that I was constantly battling an issue of some type: a nutrient deficiency, low CO2, too much CO2, not enough water changed during a water change, etc. I give you guys credit, you have done much better with high light than I ever did in terms of keeping up with it. All of this is why I like low light the most, and I can enjoy looking at tank photos from all of you high light folks!

 

[Caliban07]

My gills are burning...
The last few pages have gone over my head. I've have been fortunate enough to strike a balance with my source water, the fixtures I'm using, and modified PPS-Pro ferts. "If it ain't broke...".
My tank has had its share of BBA, GSA, BGA, hair, clado, and staghorn algae. It was definitely a learning process along the way. I've tried not to bite off more than I can chew, however, I feel pretty confident in that if I do step out on a limb, the plants WILL bounce back. I've adjusted my PPS-Pro mix once a few years back and stuck with it. I've used it in heavy and medium planted layouts (though I do recall double dosing when the plant growth was unchecked). The last time I think I tested anything (aside from TDS) was in 2015. Through trial and error I've figured out what works and what does not work in my unique setup. But thanks for the compliments, guys. I really appreciate them.
As for the dwarf sag, I think it looks best in a lower light setting amongst crypts and maybe swords. Not with stem plants. I do have one crown in my Planted tank behind a rock; it is starting to spread. I also have some outside and they've lived a few seasons under winter's ice and and summer's direct sunlight.
I'm enjoying the discussion here; lots to absorb.

Thanks Fresh. I think that is the key word we are all striving to achieve...balance. This as you say is a unique set of parameters for all of us. As Autumn quite rightly points out there are many things at play here. During your time with algae, what was your fert method then?

I agree about the Sag, definitely an impulse buy and wasn't on my list.

I mean I shouldn't really rag on EI as it is a great system and I've had pretty dam good success with it. So has cal and many others. Biggest issue and on going battle has been BBA but I'm hoping this doesn't make it into the 60. BBA started from DIY co2 and then never left.
Other than that it's only been abit of GSA on the glass here and there.

Just like fresh said its just a matter of finding what works perfectly for your tank.

Hardest part is all the conflicting info you read. Some say add more iron, some say add more phosphate, some say your lean on kno3. Because nutrient definciency can be in so many similar forms it's hard to pin point exactly what is causing the issue.

Do you have any algae issues at the moment cal? Any GSA or hair algae?

Yes Definitely. So much conflicting info. Sometimes we (no one specifically) draw wrong conclusions too that make things worse. For example, the chlorosis, poor growth and browning leaf edges could have had nothing to do with micros. Cutting them back is helping.

No new algae on plants. Some BBA still resides on the Monte Carlo I reused but only a couple of tufts which I'm going to trim today. Everything is doing well. I think the hairgrass needs trimming now. The new shoots can take time too creep out but once they get going should be ok. I think I do see an improvement when I add macros. Plants that were purchased in a yellow condition are turning green now. The blyxa arrived the night before last. It's not planted yet. I'm not going to just yet. It's quite pale. I wanna see how it adjusts.

Somehow I missed about 35 posts in a very short time!!!

This is very interesting info and as of yet personally I haven't used CO2 or the fert systems.

Key information in the whole bit was touched on earlier, is how different every members tanks are, light, water, CO2, Fert dosing, water changing, other maintenance, and even which plants are in there!
~~~

Your tank is newly set up and when you get new plants from vendors you can't be sure how they were grown immersed and how they were cared for in terms of light, water and ferts, especially plants you are not familiar with growing will be a little more of a challenge, while you get used to their settling into your tank.

Engaging discussion!

Thanks Autumn, I think you are right. We have to remember that some of the plant species we keep together may not be found close to each other geologically speaking and so one plant may be affected triggering algae where other may be just fine. We then change something for the benefit of said plant and upset the balance in the others. Many times I've seen videos where a different plant is eventually used for this reason alone.

Just curious, you run low energy setups. I believe you tore one down recently due to algae. Could you give us more info on this and how it was run and maintained?

I personally didn't like EI when I was running a high light, high maintenance build. Huge water changes and algae was an issue at times (I probably should've performed two weekly water changes). PPS-Pro works better for me, but the variables of tank conditions doesn't allow for one to recreate a fertilization method for everyone. My problem with high light was that I was constantly battling an issue of some type: a nutrient deficiency, low CO2, too much CO2, not enough water changed during a water change, etc. I give you guys credit, you have done much better with high light than I ever did in terms of keeping up with it. All of this is why I like low light the most, and I can enjoy looking at tank photos from all of you high light folks!

I am beginning to think that the nutrients or some of the nutrients are being used up quite quickly. I think you would have got there with your experience and logic. I wonder if it would be better to mix all macros separately and have a separate Bottle of just iron? Could be better for trouble shooting.[emoji848]

Where is Delapool? I think he would have something useful to add here too.

Thanks all. It's better to know we have people to turn to if things are not going as planned.

 

[Autumnsky]

My 12G Edge was the problem.

Stock light - it is the tall tank with the 42 LEDs.
Low light no ferts to speak of. Went through a phase to see if the tanks could be run with fish poo and left over food type thing. Just coming out of that phase now as I can tell the plants are not all doing very well across the board. (Some are though.)

I got some plants from a fellow hobbyist and they were pretty nice and grew well for me.

There were 6 WCMM which were just about grown had them since they were so tiny you almost didn't know they were there.

2 Young Xiphophorus helleri Rio Otapa - Swordtails which were nearing adulthood but I couldn't catch them, the other 2 were in the 72G which I did capture.

And 6 of the so very awesome little nano fish Neon Green Rasbora, Microdevario kubotai. The only fish that were supposed to be in there.

Plants were
Subwassertang, Peacock Moss, Christmas Moss
Bolbitis Heudelotii
Cryptocoryne Balansae
Cryptocoryne wendtii
Java Fern
Guppy Grass.

Anyway the plants came with the Cladophora algae and I picked it off originally and it seemd pretty low amount, but I would have to keep an eye on it. Not too much Light. A couple times the tank light would be forgotten, it isn't on a timer like a year of time. Not a big deal. About 5 months ago in August I cleaned it up and didn't have it too badly, cleaned up pretty easily by pulling it off, slid off really.

But when my daughter watched the tanks when I was gone back in October, she forgot that light and it was on for 2 days straight.

That was enough to cause a huge increase in the Clado and that stuff was in every branch and leaf of the plants and I would be able to remove small gobs of it, but there were tiny hairs of it in all the plants material. Not a way for me to clean it up easily.

I had to get those fish out (babies in a grow out tank space).

Originally set up until I was going to set up the new Edge 12G tank but it was damaged and couldn't use it. So the tank that was to be a temporary set up for a few weeks - lasted a year and a half, but as it started to look pretty nice I left it.

So took down all the things in the tank and left the plants in a bucket for 4 days without additional light. Then just did a H2O2 bath night before, 3 parts water plus 1 part H2O2 for 6 minutes. Had a few spots of green spot algae and some on the edges of the top leaves closest to the top and light on the Anubias Nana Petite.

Wiped those leaves with the Mr. Clean Magic Eraser.

Was about a 10" length of the Anubias Nana Petite on a tall DW to cover the intake tube. the DW cracked so It had to come apart anyway. I didn't see the pic for the tank in the album may have one some where.

Pwc of around 1-2 gallons each week.

Here is a pic from last August before I cleaned it up nicely.
This time it looked similar but there was more than before in the rest of the plants.

The treatment helped, but I still saw tiny fibers, though hoping they will be dying off. It was recommended to me in a thread about the algae to just use Excel for awhile to get rid of the rest of the stuff.

 

[flchamp89]

Fresh mentioned source water. I hate only having my phone. This is why my posts are short. Plus im not a talker lol. Source water is huge. While my water isnt spring water im surrounded by them. Supposedly some of best water in my state for drinking. I was expecting bad algae with this. But at 35par or so its been fairly minimal. Even diatoms were about 2 months. If I were high light would I have more issues I dont know. So we all have those different traces. I know im very high in phosphate as most of the state. So our water changes and traces that naturally occur have big factor not only on our growth but also what method/types of fert we use. This is big reason we cant dupicate each others tanks.

 

[Delapool]

So many posts! I agree each tank is different with different source water and plants that will work. Most times my plants that don't work just sit there and grow too slowly / get eaten. Pale leaves maybe higher light / lower CO2 then it is used to? That's how I can get mine to do that anyways.

Could well be other ways. I think when I was dosing API leaf zone (potassium and iron) that seemed to help as well.

In case of interest I came across sceptical aquarist on iron (via U.K. Forums as the main site of S.A. seems to have been down for some time). I've always wondered if an established tank is going to have more ways for say iron to be available through buildup/loading of clays and organic matter. But also I've seen tanks with gravel substrate that look go well right from the start.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160304180456/http://skepticalaquarist.com/ferrous-ferric

 

[Autumnsky]

Whoo, complex but nice article.

 

[Caliban07]

My 12G Edge was the problem.

Stock light - it is the tall tank with the 42 LEDs.
Low light no ferts to speak of. Went through a phase to see if the tanks could be run with fish poo and left over food type thing. Just coming out of that phase now as I can tell the plants are not all doing very well across the board. (Some are though.)

I got some plants from a fellow hobbyist and they were pretty nice and grew well for me.

There were 6 WCMM which were just about grown had them since they were so tiny you almost didn't know they were there.

2 Young Xiphophorus helleri Rio Otapa - Swordtails which were nearing adulthood but I couldn't catch them, the other 2 were in the 72G which I did capture.

And 6 of the so very awesome little nano fish Neon Green Rasbora, Microdevario kubotai. The only fish that were supposed to be in there.

Plants were
Subwassertang, Peacock Moss, Christmas Moss
Bolbitis Heudelotii
Cryptocoryne Balansae
Cryptocoryne wendtii
Java Fern
Guppy Grass.

Anyway the plants came with the Cladophora algae and I picked it off originally and it seemd pretty low amount, but I would have to keep an eye on it. Not too much Light. A couple times the tank light would be forgotten, it isn't on a timer like a year of time. Not a big deal. About 5 months ago in August I cleaned it up and didn't have it too badly, cleaned up pretty easily by pulling it off, slid off really.

But when my daughter watched the tanks when I was gone back in October, she forgot that light and it was on for 2 days straight.

That was enough to cause a huge increase in the Clado and that stuff was in every branch and leaf of the plants and I would be able to remove small gobs of it, but there were tiny hairs of it in all the plants material. Not a way for me to clean it up easily.

I had to get those fish out (babies in a grow out tank space).

Originally set up until I was going to set up the new Edge 12G tank but it was damaged and couldn't use it. So the tank that was to be a temporary set up for a few weeks - lasted a year and a half, but as it started to look pretty nice I left it.

So took down all the things in the tank and left the plants in a bucket for 4 days without additional light. Then just did a H2O2 bath night before, 3 parts water plus 1 part H2O2 for 6 minutes. Had a few spots of green spot algae and some on the edges of the top leaves closest to the top and light on the Anubias Nana Petite.

Wiped those leaves with the Mr. Clean Magic Eraser.

Was about a 10" length of the Anubias Nana Petite on a tall DW to cover the intake tube. the DW cracked so It had to come apart anyway. I didn't see the pic for the tank in the album may have one some where.

Pwc of around 1-2 gallons each week.

Here is a pic from last August before I cleaned it up nicely.
This time it looked similar but there was more than before in the rest of the plants.

The treatment helped, but I still saw tiny fibers, though hoping they will be dying off. It was recommended to me in a thread about the algae to just use Excel for awhile to get rid of the rest of the stuff.

Thanks for that Autumn. I hope it works out. Which plants did well and which were the ones that were struggling.

Fresh mentioned source water. I hate only having my phone. This is why my posts are short. Plus im not a talker lol. Source water is huge. While my water isnt spring water im surrounded by them. Supposedly some of best water in my state for drinking. I was expecting bad algae with this. But at 35par or so its been fairly minimal. Even diatoms were about 2 months. If I were high light would I have more issues I dont know. So we all have those different traces. I know im very high in phosphate as most of the state. So our water changes and traces that naturally occur have big factor not only on our growth but also what method/types of fert we use. This is big reason we cant dupicate each others tanks.

Very true.

So many posts! I agree each tank is different with different source water and plants that will work. Most times my plants that don't work just sit there and grow too slowly / get eaten. Pale leaves maybe higher light / lower CO2 then it is used to? That's how I can get mine to do that anyways.

Could well be other ways. I think when I was dosing API leaf zone (potassium and iron) that seemed to help as well.

In case of interest I came across sceptical aquarist on iron (via U.K. Forums as the main site of S.A. seems to have been down for some time). I've always wondered if an established tank is going to have more ways for say iron to be available through buildup/loading of clays and organic matter. But also I've seen tanks with gravel substrate that look go well right from the start.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160304180456/http://skepticalaquarist.com/ferrous-ferric

Interesting article. I see things like this all the time but I try to ignore them because I don't want it to be true. I don't want it to be so difficult to get iron to stay in solution. I'm really thinking red clay should help.

 

[Caliban07]

At the moment I am going to be brave and say that I THINK the dwarf sag is just transitioning and that the new leaves were a first attempt. Other new leaves are looking gradually thicker. No other plants seem to be affected and I don't think any of the other plants have needed to transition either?

I planted the Blyxa Japonica and added some Pogostemon stellatus. The dwarf sag will be replaced with more Pogostemon helferi.

Last picture before I follow in fresh's footsteps and post some progression pictures.

 

[Autumnsky]

So after reading that article and just now a different article about TDS, brought about a point of how things we may use in our tanks, like Prime and Purigen, activated carbon, water clarifiers, and any other, can't think of them at the moment.
The way that those work are they bind /chelate so filters can remove them or get them to the filter to biologically break down.

Purigen and what it does - Seachem Support Forums
Seachem - Prime

I am wondering how these kinds of things may affect our tanks. As specifically they could have effect on iron. Like pH will change the available Fe++ or Fe+++ unavailable forms of the same thing. Then there are the iron bacteria in low O2 environments. Very fascinating and more complicated than "dose [or use] this and everything is going to grow great"!

The part about how the iron can be dosed and then soon thereafter undetectable due to chemical change in the tank was surprising. Great info to help us know that we do NOT know everything going on in there.

Not that I am dumb, but I'm not THAT smart, some of those things are way over my head and although I like to know how things work, some of the minute details are too much for me! So sometimes might have to read and hear this stuff a few times to keep up!

The info about TDS mentioned that high TDS and TSS [total suspended solids] can have an effect on the tanks water clarity and O2 levels and plants and fish ability to photosynthesize and breath respectively, and I think I read can have increased algae growth.

Here if anyone wants to read it. Feel like I just signed up for a college class. Ow, my brain hurts after these.
The Importance of Total Dissolved Solids in the Freshwater Aquarium - plecoplanet Forums

 

[Autumnsky]

Crypt Balansae had no algae on it to speak of. It was off to the side about 4-5 inches from the globs in the A. Nana Petite. The small swords in the lower bottom seemed fine too.

As from the pic the Guppy grass just gave the Clado a structure to hold onto and form a mass.