CONFUSED: Cycling & Frequent Water Changes - PLEASE HELP!

[suziparis35]

Happy Memorial Day Everyone!

So I'm getting really confused about cycling and water changes with my 10G tank. Here's why: I started cycling fish-in about 6 weeks ago with 3 zebra danios. I have always used test strips and thought they were adequate. They were showing 0 nitrates and 0.5ppm of nitrites so I thought all was OK. I had some pregnant guppies living in a 3G cube and wanted to move them quickly because the cube was too small and stressful, so once I thought the 10G was cycled, I transferred the guppies into it and then moved the danios out into my established community 20G tank.

So I recently bought an API master test kit for a really good price and started testing the 10G water and to my surprise the levels started spiking. My ammonia readings started at 8.0ppm (about 2 weeks ago) and now fluctuate between 0.25 and 1.0 (which is a good drop I'm guessing). Nitrite started at 2.0 but keeps rising to 5.0, despite frequent PWC's. Could it be that I am feeding the fish too much? Keep in mind that 3 of them are pregnant and are ravenous right now!

Here is my confusion: a lot of members in this forum say to make PWC's when levels gets too high. The API master test kit says to do the same. Apparently, most of the beneficial bacteria lies in the filter media, substrate, decor, etc., not the water itself, so changing it regularly should have no impact on the nitrogen cycle. HOWEVER, LFS said that every time I make a WC I am breaking down/interrupting the nitrogen cycle and that I need to let things be for awhile. They advised that I stop making so many WC's and let my levels rise and eventually fall so the cycle can complete. They said I may lose my fish in the process. I do not want to lose my fish - I have 2 pregnant guppies and 1 pregnant platy - and I am scared to let the levels get that high and that toxic.

PLEASE HELP! I really want to get this tank right and make sure my pregnant fish can give birth safely! Should I keep checking my water every couple of days, making PWC if necessary, and continue this until my levels are steady, OR should I quit being so overzealous, and do as the LFS expert says and leave things alone for awhile?

Thank you for reading (sorry for the long post!)

BTW, all of the fish in this tank appear to be healthy and happy at the time of writing

 

[Fresh2o]

Others here will agree with this...continue with the PWCs and testing. Allowing the nitrogenous waste (all 3 forms) to build up like this is placing unnecessary stress on the fish and can lead to disease and/or death.

 

[sidgolding]

Hello, hopefully I can help. First off I would say leave the water changes for 2-3 weeks.... Let the fish settle the water. Also another thing that might help is to put the danios back in with the guppies and a 45L tank would do better with a couple more fish... Some times it is possible to have to few fish in a tank... Fresh just a quick question do you not think it's wise to stop doing water changes and let the bacteria do there job in balancing the tank?

 

[sidgolding]

Also I think its good to have a difference in opinion on here because I like to learn and if I'm wrong then please someone tell me... But I had the same problem and I left the tank alone for about 3 weeks and it sorted it self out

 

[suziparis35]

I should have clarified regarding stocking: I have 2 platys (1 is preggers), and 4 guppys (1 male, 2 pregnant females, and 1 as of yet unidentified adolescent).

Thanks for the replies thus far, but you both said opposite things LOL. I'm still confused what to do!

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[sidgolding]

O okay that's plenty then if your breeding, have you got a nursery? I have just been give 8 molly fry today( so I have them in a nursery so mum and others don't eat them, as I lost about 12 lol). Honestly I'm speaking from actually having the same problem you did.. I was doing everything your doing and it just wasn't helping... So I just left it be for 3 weeks and BAM, it's all gravy and everything sorted it self... If your worries about the fry maybe take them out temp until it's sorted??

 

[carey]

You will have to keep up with the water changes if you want to save the fish. You cant have those high readings and not do a water change, it will kill the fish most likely.

This will in fact EXTEND your cycle, no getting around that now. Doing a fish in cycle always takes more time anyways due to the water changes you must do to keep the fish alive.

 

[sidgolding]

If you are worried about the fish you may need to have a juggle around..... Maybe just put the pregnant ones in the 3G on their own and mother the others in the other tank you have and start a fresh.... As you have the ability to do that with the other tanks this may help??? But I will say I disagree...

 

[Britty]

The idea of no to low PWCs applies to fishless cycling. You can let ammonia and nitrites parameters rise. Only need pwcs in case the cycle stalls.

But youre doing a fish in cycle. With fish in cycling, you need to do constant pwcs to not kill the fish. Remember will need some Prime to help detoxify the ammonia and nitrites temporarily because without an established filter PWCs and Prime is the only way you can manage pollutants in the water column. Fish in cycling is a constant balance between ammonia production to feed the cycle and not killing the fish from poisonous water column.

You're not breaking the cycle as fish continually produce waste ammonia from regular activity and feeding. This is your filter medias primary food source to which then everything else in the cycle stems from. It then develops and feeds bacteria to convert that ammo to nitrites which then is the food for other new bacteria to convert nitrites to nitrates.

 

[sidgolding]

Okay I'm abit confused... Is this a new tank??? And your cycling with fish in? Or is this a established tank that has had a recent spike????

 

[suziparis35]

Hey Sid, it's been cycling for about 5 to 6 weeks now. At first I was only using the test strips, so was not getting very accurate results. I thought it was cycled when I put the guppies in. When I started testing with the master kit, I realized it probably was not fully cycled. Now I have fish that I am trying to keep healthy and high nitrites. I am doing PWC pretty much every other day but wondering if there is light at the end of the tunnel ?

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[Crazyhermitcrab]

Hello, I can help you with your problems.
First move the females into the 3 gallon or with the males. Just get them somewhere cycled. Keeping them in the 10 gallon WILL kill them.
PWC will not ruin the cycle, it will delay it. Buy this Tetra Tetra SafeStart : Questions, Answers, How To, FAQs, Tips, Advice, Answers, Buying Guide to speed up your cycle. Good luck.

 

[Fresh2o]

Obtaining and using established media from a cycled filter will jump start the cycling process in a new tank. I did a fish less cycle using some established media from my other tank and it took 6 days. This can also apply to fish-in cycles as well. Sources for established media include (but not limited to) your LFS, other AA members, and online. One AA member that has received positive feedback for providing established media is Mr Fisher (go to the Classified/Feedback section and peruse the reviews). I think the media is in the form of a sponge which can be cut to fit as needed. Contact that person if this sounds like an appealing route.

 

[Crazyhermitcrab]

Obtaining and using established media from a cycled filter will jump start the cycling process in a new tank. I did a fish less cycle using some established media from my other tank and it took 6 days. This can also apply to fish-in cycles as well. Sources for established media include (but not limited to) your LFS, other AA members, and online. One AA member that has received positive feedback for providing established media is Mr Fisher (go to the Classified/Feedback section and peruse the reviews). I think the media is in the form of a sponge which can be cut to fit as needed. Contact that person if this sounds like an appealing route.

Be careful LFS might have parasites or infection.

 

[FishyBusiness]

I'm gonna start off by saying, most of the time, blow off advice from LFS stores. They usually just want the sales and in your case would be more fish sales to replace the ones that would die. With fish-in cycling, you need to do PWC's when the following results are

NO HIGHER than:
Ammonia: 4-5 ppm
Nitrites: .5 ppm
Nitrates: 40 ppm
(If your using FW API master kit)

Those should be the highest your levels should be allowed to get with fish-in. Preferably doing when their much lower! Some people need to do multiple PWC's a day, some don't.

Fish in cycling does take a lot more work and takes longer to complete cycle process vs fish-less cycling. Also because it sounds like your ammonia is lowering and nitrites are rising, that's getting closer. The BB that converts ammonia -> nitrites form quicker than the BB that converts nitrites -> nitrates.

Seeded media will definitely help you out and could help you complete cycling very quickly. I know there's someone on here selling some seeded sponge filters in the classifieds. Also online. AngelsPlus.com has some for pretty cheap. Myself has used their 'active mag filters' as have others with great success. Or if you have a friend with a healthy established aquarium, borrow whatever you can from them!

 

[sidgolding]

Okay then I'm sorry about saying leaving your tank be as it will kill the fish... I thought you just had a spike in a set up tank... My apologise get the fish out... If you have any live plants in other tanks that could be moved that would really help... But I would defo get the fish out....

 

[Caliban07]

There seems to be a lot of confusion around fish in cycles. If you do a fish in cycle correctly you hardly have to change any water at all. You just do regular weekly water changes 30-50%

If you do a fish in cycle wrong then that's when you need to do water changes to save the fish.

A fish in cycle will take as long as it takes for you to add your final fish.

 

[cfosgate]

There seems to be a lot of confusion around fish in cycles. If you do a fish in cycle correctly you hardly have to change any water at all. You just do regular weekly water changes 30-50%

If you do a fish in cycle wrong then that's when you need to do water changes to save the fish.

I'm confused and clearly behind the times as there must be something new that I haven't yet learned about.

What is the wrong way to do a fish-in cycle and if you're only doing a weekly WC then how do you keep your fish from being poisoned by ammonia and nitrites?

 

[Brookster123]

I'm confused and clearly behind the times as there must be something new that I haven't yet learned about.

What is the wrong way to do a fish-in cycle and if you're only doing a weekly WC then how do you keep your fish from being poisoned by ammonia and nitrites?

+1 even with a minimally stocked fish in cycle you're going to be in for at least 3 pwc's a week.. I'm not sure your fish are going to farewell long term having been subjected to such toxic levels over that long a period. They may survive the cycle but the permanent damage will surely have been done. . No? Caliban. I feel you more than most surely understand the toxicity of ammonia and nitrites in certain peramters. Baring pH and the use of prime of course.. with optimal water parameters and religious use of prime than it may be possible to get by with the one weekly wc but you'd really be taking an unnecessary gamble..

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[Caliban07]

+1 even with a minimally stocked fish in cycle you're going to be in for at least 3 pwc's a week.. I'm not sure your fish are going to farewell long term having been subjected to such toxic levels over that long a period. They may survive the cycle but the permanent damage will surely have been done. . No? Caliban. I feel you more than most surely understand the toxicity of ammonia and nitrites in certain peramters. Baring pH and the use of prime of course.. with optimal water parameters and religious use of prime than it may be possible to get by with the one weekly wc but you'd really be taking an unnecessary gamble..

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There is no gamble.

The wrong way to do a fish in cycle is by choosing the wrong size tank, stocking the wrong kind of fish, stocking too many fish, and probably the biggest culprit. Overfeeding.

The idea of a fish in cycle is to stock very slowly and I'm taking 4 small fish for a week. Depending on the tank size the ammonia levels would be trace. The tester will show 0.25ppm. If done correctly the levels shouldn't exceed this. A total ammonia level of 0.25ppm (which is what the test kit measures) equates to an actual Toxic level of ammonia that is so small it doesn't come close to harming our fish.

This is the only reason a fish in cycle takes so long. You have to stock slowly. But if you do it slowly then it doesn't even matter how long it takes for a cycle to complete it won't stop until you add your last fish. As the weeks go by, the colony is growing all the time.