Confused

[HHT]

Hi all,

I got a small tank for the kids (48 litre) with a live plant. Hoping to get another live plant in there. Have gravel, decorations too. It has been running for almost 2 weeks (tomorrow).

I noticed there was a little clouding going on. Spoke to guy at lfs and he advised me to do a 30% water change everyday for a few days. Did this and after a few day got a lot clearer. I also got 3 neons to start with (advised by the same person at the lfs) this was after 3 days of running the tank.

I read, neons should be kept in groups of approx. 6, so the next day I went and bought another 3. All seemed ok for the first day and most of the next. Got in in the evening to find a neon dead!

Not sure if it was a bad fish to start with or other reason.

I now have 4 neons (another died today) , 4 molly's, and a red fin tetra. I noticed there is still a little clouding in the tank! I've cleaned the tank and done a 45% water change (not sure if I should've done this)?

Been testing the water with test strips (need to get the api test kit) and all shows well. One day showed slightly high chlorine but I added the tap safe stuff to reduce chlorine.

Done another test after the water change and removing the neon. All seems ok according to the test. Will take a sample into lfs for them to test.

Not sure if I'm doing anything wrong or the neons were wrong starting fish. I did notice before I got the rest of the fish, 2 of the neons had little white spots. I was advised to turn up the temp. a little. Since then, no spots. I also noticed in the lfs, their neons also had them but the assisstant reckoned that wasn't the so called neon disease but advised to turn temp. up. I'm confused to why they had the odd spot on them.

Am I doing something wrong, or being given wrong advise?

Spoke to another guy in another lfs and he said " I should've started with a bottom feeder and glass cleaner fish. Hedid say not to get any more fish for atleast another week. Have also been advised by another member not to get any more yet (v good advice).

Any suggestions or help will be appreciated (sorry for the long read)

 

[Minnesota-koi]

Leave the clouding in the tank it is a bacterial bloom that after a few days will attach to your filter media. In other words you are doing a fish in tank cycle. Do some research on tank cycling and you should feel better or at least know what is taking place in your tank.

 

[librarygirl]

Hi and welcome! My replies below in blue.....

Hi all,

I got a small tank for the kids (48 litre) with a live plant. Hoping to get another live plant in there. Have gravel, decorations too. It has been running for almost 2 weeks (tomorrow). That's about 12-13 gals, not a bad size to start with.

I noticed there was a little clouding going on. Spoke to guy at lfs and he advised me to do a 30% water change everyday for a few days. Did this and after a few day got a lot clearer. I also got 3 neons to start with (advised by the same person at the lfs) this was after 3 days of running the tank. White clouding in a new tank is normal, most likely a bacterial bloom. Water changes are OK but it might come back; it should clear up on its own eventually though.

I read, neons should be kept in groups of approx. 6, so the next day I went and bought another 3. All seemed ok for the first day and most of the next. Got in in the evening to find a neon dead! Even though Neons are small fish, they are very active and the minimum I usually recommend is 20 gals for them, but you have some now so let's try to keep them healthy.

Not sure if it was a bad fish to start with or other reason.
How did you acclimate them? If you just floated the bag and then added them to the tank that could be one reason. They may have already been sick.

I now have 4 neons (another died today) , 4 molly's, and a red fin tetra. I noticed there is still a little clouding in the tank! I've cleaned the tank and done a 45% water change (not sure if I should've done this)?

Unfortunately your tank is now pretty overstocked if not fully stocked at least. Mollys have a very high bioload (meaning they produce a lot of waste) and 12 gals is much too small for 4 of them, especially given the tank isn't cycled.

Been testing the water with test strips (need to get the api test kit) and all shows well. One day showed slightly high chlorine but I added the tap safe stuff to reduce chlorine.
Yep, get the API kit. Are you adding dechlorinator each time you do a water change? You should, not just if/when it tests for chlorine. Prime is the best if you can get it but whatever you have on-hand for now is fine, just add it with every water change (what are you using, just out of curiosity?). What exactly did the test strips read? What do they test for? Ideally you want to test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and PH (the API Kit has all of these). I highly doubt in a tank that small with 4 mollys and assorted other fish that the levels are good. I'd suggest a 50% water change daily (use dechlorinator and try to match the temp of the water to the tank water; just feel both with your hand) until you can get the API kit.

Done another test after the water change and removing the neon. All seems ok according to the test. Will take a sample into lfs for them to test. What is the LFS using to test? if they use strips too that isn't going to help much lol. If they do use a liquid kit, have them give you the exact results of each test (don't let them tell you it's "fine" because it may not be) and then post them here.

Not sure if I'm doing anything wrong or the neons were wrong starting fish. I did notice before I got the rest of the fish, 2 of the neons had little white spots. I was advised to turn up the temp. a little. Since then, no spots. I also noticed in the lfs, their neons also had them but the assisstant reckoned that wasn't the so called neon disease but advised to turn temp. up. I'm confused to why they had the odd spot on them. I'd say 1) the tank isn't cycled and 2) you added way too many fish at once particularly ones not very suited for your tank size. THey may also not have been acclimated correctly and/or they may have been sick when you got them.

Am I doing something wrong, or being given wrong advise? Do you know about cycling? If not, read this: I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?! - Aquarium Advice

This guide may help too: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/guide-to-starting-a-freshwater-aquarium-186089.html

Spoke to another guy in another lfs and he said " I should've started with a bottom feeder and glass cleaner fish. Hedid say not to get any more fish for atleast another week. Have also been advised by another member not to get any more yet (v good advice). Yep, no more fish! They'll try to sell you anyting at the LFS; your best bet is to research first. If you can return the fish you have now and start over that would be the best route. You can read up on fishless cycling and try that (the guide above has a link to this) or you can start with a few small fish that are more appropriate for your tank. If you can't return them, 50% daily water changes with dechlorinated water, get the API kit, and try to save for a larger tank.

Any suggestions or help will be appreciated (sorry for the long read)

 

[HHT]

Hi and welcome! My replies below in blue.....

Thanks for all the above info. librarygirl.

I have read up on cycling etc. and the bacteria bloom (clouding). It's just everytime I speak to assisstants at lfs, they advise different things!

Not sure which testing kit they use but will get one done tomorrow and find out results and type of test. I use a 6 in 1 test strip to check levels and all seem fine?

I use bioactive tap safe each time I add new water and filter booster. I bought the fish on advise from lfs. They reckon I can get 28 or so fish in it! Telling me a fish size=1 inch needs 1 litre of water.

Appreciate your help so far. Will do another water change today. Cleaned gravel in the tank using vac thing and try to do it every 3/4 days.

 

[HHT]

Leave the clouding in the tank it is a bacterial bloom that after a few days will attach to your filter media. In other words you are doing a fish in tank cycle. Do some research on tank cycling and you should feel better or at least know what is taking place in your tank.

Have read that and feel good but then speaking to assistant at lfs gets confusing again!!

 

[librarygirl]

The one inch per gallon rule of stocking is outmoded and not accurate as it doesn't take things like bioload, fish activity level, adult size, etc. into account. It's best to find fish you like, research them on your own (ask here too!) before you buy anything. Most people who work at the LFS don't have fish experience or aren't properly trained and most of the time they're motivated into selling you something, not what's good for the fish (not all, but most )

Many of the cycle/bacteria starters don't work; some contain the wrong bacteria and even if they have the right ones it's difficult to keep bacteria viable in a bottle. You can use it, but just don't rely on it.

Sounds like you're trying to do what's best for the fish! Finding this forum was a great start too.

 

[paytertot]

One inch per liter is even worse than an inch per gallon x.x unless you meant "/gal

 

[HHT]

Yep, want the best for the fish Got the tank for the kids, but me and the mrs will be doing all the cycling, cleaning etc.

Going to have a search on different types of fish and see which we'd like to go for and if they're compatible with each other and take it from there (and post on here for advice before getting new fish). Hopefully should all work out. I might even get a larger tank later on (once I get the hang of it). Didn't realise there's that much involved in keeping fish! But worth it

 

[HHT]

One inch per liter is even worse than an inch per gallon x.x unless you meant "/gal

I'm sure they (lfs) said 1 inch per litre!!

 

[tamtam]

I'm sure they (lfs) said 1 inch per litre!!

I was speaking to a guy working the fish section at our local pet store and he has this tiny tank filled with tetras.. at least 4 times what should have been in this poor tiny thing. It's a shame that they aren't better trained because most people will take them at their word thinking they are the professional

 

[tamtam]

Thanks for all the above info. librarygirl.

I have read up on cycling etc. and the bacteria bloom (clouding). It's just everytime I speak to assisstants at lfs, they advise different things!

Not sure which testing kit they use but will get one done tomorrow and find out results and type of test. I use a 6 in 1 test strip to check levels and all seem fine?

I use bioactive tap safe each time I add new water and filter booster. I bought the fish on advise from lfs. They reckon I can get 28 or so fish in it! Telling me a fish size=1 inch needs 1 litre of water.

Appreciate your help so far. Will do another water change today. Cleaned gravel in the tank using vac thing and try to do it every 3/4 days.

you really should invest in a liquid test kit, they are more expensive to buy but are actually cheaper in the long run over test strips. Test strips also aren't very accurate.

 

[tamtam]

library girl has given you some great advice. With an over stocked tank it's very important to keep up on those water changes, especially since you are doing a fish in cycle. Those ammonia levels are probably going to really spike. Good luck!

 

[HHT]

Thanks tamtam. Hoping can get the cycle sorted will be investing in the api test kit.

Have the tetra 6 in 1 test kit at moment with quite a few strips left.

I did a test a few minutes ago with the following results. The test reckons all is well and safe.

0.8 - cl2
3 - kh
6.8 - ph
16 - gh
1 - no2
10 - no3

 

[paytertot]

Does it not test ammonia? And 1ppm nitrites is not safe, it needs to be .25 max

 

[librarygirl]

Agree, recheck the No2 test (nitrite). It might not be accurate b/c of the strips but it's better to be safe than sorry; nitrite is as toxic to fish as ammonia. If it really reads that high, do a large water change (70%) to get it down.

 

[HHT]

I'll do another test and see what it reads. The test doesn't seem to test for ammonia! Have oredered the api test kit so looking forward to getting that. Does the api kit test for ammonia?

The test strips no2 starts from 0, next bloxk is 1, then is 5 and so on. So can't really get an accurate reading

 

[paytertot]

If you bought the API freshwater master test kit, then yes. It will include tests for PH, high range PH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

 

[HHT]

If you bought the API freshwater master test kit, then yes. It will include tests for PH, high range PH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

That's the one

 

[HHT]

Done a 50% water change earlier, also went to lfs who tested water. They said all is ok but ammonia is slightly high. I was in a rush and forgot to ask what typ of test they've done! Should have my new test kit tomorrow so can test properly at home. Going to do a 30% water change tomorrow to try clear things up a little. SIck of the bad clouding!

Have also decided to give my neons away and go for some hardier tetra's. Might also give away 1 of the male mollies and will be left with 1 male, 2 females.

Going to wait another week and make sure things improve with water levels and then change fish

 

[tamtam]

Done a 50% water change earlier, also went to lfs who tested water. They said all is ok but ammonia is slightly high. I was in a rush and forgot to ask what typ of test they've done! Should have my new test kit tomorrow so can test properly at home. Going to do a 30% water change tomorrow to try clear things up a little. SIck of the bad clouding!

Have also decided to give my neons away and go for some hardier tetra's. Might also give away 1 of the male mollies and will be left with 1 male, 2 females.

Going to wait another week and make sure things improve with water levels and then change fish

honestly I think if you give away the neons your best bet is to really wait until you get a bigger tank before you re-add any fish. If you keep an over stocked tank you are going to be doing a lot of water changes to keep those level downs.