discus... one pugnacious meanie!

[xyyz]

i know they're cichilids and all, but i thought they were peaceful and community oriented.

so it's odd when i introduced this 1.5" little guy, named "mr discus" into my 29 gallon setup only to find the innocently funny fish took charge of HALF THE TANK. that's right, not a single hiding spot, or some "cave" like area, but half the tank. he sits right above some amazon swords (at leat i think they're amazon swords) and the moment any of the other angelfish come into his domain in charges and nips.

i already have a dominant angelfish pair in the tank, and they generally chase off the other two angels, but that's all they do, chase. this guy, he goes up agaist the large male angel 2.5x his size and takes bites.

will he calm down, or is this how he's gonna behave? if he's going to be this agressive, i'll have no choice but to remove him and give him back.

 

[marchmaxima]

You introduced one only? Are there any other discus in the tank? from my limited understanding of discus, they prefer to be in groups..... But I can't say categorically that this has caused his aggression....

 

[xyyz]

just one. they have to be introduced in pairs or more?

 

[JustOneMore20]

People keep Discus singly and in pairs, but they are a schooling fish and with a group, the aggression is probably spread out more.

A 29g isn't big enough for a group though and IMO not big enough for a pair of Angels and a Discus. If you plan to move any of those in the future, than thats a great idea. If not, then I'd remove the Discus and save those for a larger tank where you could have 5-6 of them.

Small tanks can increase aggression in fish as well.

 

[Zagz]

I agree that a 29 gal is not big enough for a discus and angelfish esp. Discus as juvies need to be in groups and need different water requirements than the other fish. I would return the discus or get another tank, cycle it well first and add the discus you have and a few others.

 

[xyyz]

the plan was to move the fish into a 55 gallon within a couple of months.

as for the discus, is it a must to keep them in soft acidic water, or can they be acclimated to the harder more alkaline water in my area?

 

[white-worms]

Your angel fish will be the dominant fish shorty. When discus are small, they are easily bossed around by more aggressive Angel fish

 

[xyyz]

i guess this discus is the exception to the rule. it's clearly the most dominant fish in the tank.

 

[white-worms]

i guess this discus is the exception to the rule. it's clearly the most dominant fish in the tank.

Well' I've seen this happen many times with my own discus. Put some new ones in and one might become the boss. But it usually doesn't last very long. Just had one of mine grow on fast compared the the other and take over things, but a week later it's not anymore really and two others are now catching up.

Angel Fish for me, are much more aggressive than Discus, especially when they start to get some size on them and catch up a bit on the discus. The tables are usually turned in the end - which is why lots of Discus keepers frown at people who mix angels with discus.

I do have two angels and 6 discus myself in 6ft tank, along with other small cory, tetra's. But I'm keeping a close eye on the angels though. I bought two black veiltail angels. Which seem much less aggressive so far compared to other varieties like Marble Angels etc.

Discus really are stange fish, one day to can have one that rules the tank big style, a week later he's demoted.

 

[bs6749]

First, discus prefer to be in groups of at least 6. It's best to purchase 6 or more fish from the same brood and put them in a grow out tank. The ideal size to purchase is anything larger than 2.5 inches as fish smaller than that tend to be more unforgiving and their needs are greater.

Secondly, you DON'T need to cycle a discus tank. The whole point of putting them in a growout tank is to do frequent and large water changes. Most breeders/experts would recommend changing no less than 50% of the water every day when growing out discus. Though I feel this is a bit much, I am no expert. Nitrates are a growth limiting factor for many fish but they are removed through large water changes. You don't have to cycle the tank...it will cycle itself over a period of time of doing large water changes. One of the best things you could do would be to run multiple sponge filters in the grow out tank.

I have doubts about the quality of your discus. By the way you described its behavior I have a feeling it's a stunted, bug eyed discus that is an "adult" when it comes to behavior but it looks like a juvenile. Do you have any pictures of the fish? I suggest buying from a reputable source. Look around on www.simplydiscus.com/forums in the sponsors section. There you will see QUALITY discus. Many experts on there that won't steer you wrong when it comes to purchasing quality stock.

As far as tank size, you should be looking at a minimum of 29 gallons as a grow out tank for up to ten 2.5" discus. The water will need to be changed 50% daily though. I recommend going with a 55 gallon setup and buying 6-8 3" fish. Don't believe what you hear about a 29 gallon tank being to small for a discus. Ask breeders what they use for thier breeding pairs. You'd be surprised by the amount of them that say they use 20 gallon HIGH tanks. The pairs that are in there are healthy and produce fry every week or so. They aren't going to do that if they aren't comfortable. IMO a 55 is the minimum that you'd want for a group of adults. You could get away with 6-7 adults in there if you keep up on the water changes.

 

[white-worms]

Another useful tip also, if you go bare bottom tank (which most discus keepers eventually do). To avoid possible water quality problems, so they can syphon all uneaten food away daily. Get some very small clay pots and some good nitrate removal plants. And put them in your bare bottom tank (only a few though). If both helps to any nitrates still present, and gives them a little bit of security because the tank is not totally bare.

Also, I agree with the post above. Good advice also!

Unfortunately where Discus are concerned, it's the same old story all the time. People run a fully planted aquarium with gravel and all that etc, that's been run as a low maintenance show tank. They put discus in and then wonder later why they're not doing so well later on. It all boils down to both water quality (as pointed out above), meaning, if your serious about keeping discus - you have to do large regular water changes. And keeping on top of removing all uneaten food daily. Which is why it's best to go bare bottom setup to achieve this, even though it doesn't look pleasing to the eye (or anybody else coming to look at your display tank).

I'm not saying it isn't possible to keep discus in a planted tank, but it requires careful planning and very regular maintenance still.

 

[white-worms]

Here are 3 pictures of my 6ft display tank with 6 discus in it. But the tank is filtered by two large canister filters and also a large Huey Hung sponge filter (which has been expanded into 4 sponges), and have a powerfull twin outlet air pump running on full power also.

My water volume gets turned over about 5 times an hour, my spray bar runs the full length of the tank and I've drilled the holes much larger in them to avoid a strong current on water return.

 

[bs6749]

I forgot to address the water hardness issue. As far as the hardness goes most discus that are brought over from Asia or purchased in the U.S. have been raised and acclimated to water that is moderately hard to hard (150 ppm and above). The only times you will want/need soft water is when dealing with wilds or when breeding discus.

Whiteworms brings up some good points. I had a barebottom tank, until yesterday actually, and it could have benefitted from the potted plants as he mentioned. The tank will get dirty fast and plants will help to suck nitrates out of the water. Nice tank BTW, but why only the two? I think you could use some reds and some goldens, a blue diamond or two, and a couple of white diamonds or yellow diamonds. Oh, and don't forget the leopards and leopard snakes! : )

 

[white-worms]

There are actually 6 discus in total in the tank, two of them are blue diamonds. They seemed to have split into there own groups now.

The blue diamonds stick together and don't really show much interest in the others, and them vice versa. It's as though the colour of them makes the other discus think they are not discus. LOL

 

[bs6749]

I can actually see 4 or 5 of them in the first pic and 3 or 4 in the last pic including one of the BD's. So what do you have? 2 BD's, 2 turqs? and what else?

 

[white-worms]

OK, The Blue Diamonds I bought myself. The other 4 I'm not really sure about, as my daughter got them wholesale for me. She works in a pet shop and can get them cheap direct for me.

They looked like browns at first with a bit of blue and red in them. But some are now showing marking like snake skins and some like red turks etc.

Here are some more images.

 

[bs6749]

Looks like they are all red turq's except for your blue diamonds. I don't see any snakeskins. The snakes will have tight lines and will have 14 vertical stress bars, yours have the normal number of 9.

 

[xyyz]

wow. i thought this thread died. thanks to the both of you bs6749, and white-worms for the wealth of information. so far the discus's still aggressive, but he/she has it's moods. at times it'll be extremely aggressive, but usually it's only mildly aggressive. it's targets usually are two juvi angelfish that don't really bother anyone.

as for the pictures. i'll take some, but in the meanwhile, i'll do a description. the discus looks EXACTLY like the one you have on the top right picture in your first set, white worms. and then again, the one in the picture on extreme left middle of the bottom left picture in your second set. btw, gorgeous tank.

 

[xyyz]

here's a picture i just took while it was feeding on the copious quantity of algae stuck on some ferns:

 

[bs6749]

Red turq.