Dry ferts for dummies?

The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an interest in aquariums or fish keeping!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

vexxiang

Aquarium Advice Freak
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Messages
206
Location
Houston, TX
I'm running out of liquid bottled ferts and I'd like to get some dry ferts to make on my own to save money.

But, it all seems rather confusing. Where do you buy it? What do you buy? Is there a package you can purchase without taking a chemistry class? :cool:
 
Google pps-pro or EI dosing. These are the two major methods of dosing ferts and each is pretty simple outta the box, so to speak. You can buy them online are various sites but many here like to buy them from Green Leaf Aquariums (GLA) and they'll come with the dosing bottles you will need. GLA makes it very simple and you can buy the full package with everything you need for $30 + shipping. If you check out their site you can read their instructions and information too. The only thing you will need separately is a digital food scale so you can measure things out by grams, but these are easily obtainable on Amazon for ~$10.

Edit: I just want to add that dry ferts seem intimidating at first but once you get them you'll find they're pretty straightforward. They're also popular because you can tinker with different amounts of each component depending on the needs of your tank and plants. That's the stuff that can get complicated but in the beginning don't even worry about alterations. Just follow the directions, familiarize yourself with the (simple) processes, and see how your plants respond. Keep it easy. Planted tanks are less stressful and intimidating when you go at a pace you're comfortable with, and there will be plenty of time to continue to delve deeper and deeper into the high tech side of things once you've mastered the easy stuff. :)
 
Last edited:
get the gold fish out of there first he will eat your plants second they are not tropical and all the rest of your fish are
the angels will eat any fry you get if the molly is a female and may eat her
 
That goldfish is the black sheep of the tank. It came from my outdoor pond when we had to fill it and its about 9 years old now. I originally planned to adopt it out to someone, but when I made my plans known you would have thought I told my 5 year old that we were going to eat the dog.

So there he is. He doesn't seem to mess with the big plants much so long as I keep him fed. He nibbles on the small leaf ones but I got some anacharis and those seem to grow faster than his appetite.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Aquarium Advice mobile app
 
I agree that the Goldfish could be a problem but if he seems healthy the decision is up to you. And MICEY he/she only has 1 molly, so they won't have fry.
 
I'm running out of liquid bottled ferts and I'd like to get some dry ferts to make on my own to save money.

But, it all seems rather confusing. Where do you buy it? What do you buy? Is there a package you can purchase without taking a chemistry class? :cool:

Dry fertilizer is actually really simple. And no, this isn't one of those things where I say it is but it's just because I have a degree in chemistry or something. :lol: I'm 14 and I did it easily so its not hard at all. Having a basic knowledge of some chemistry terms and element names is helpful, but nothing beyond a middle school education.

Here is where you can find it.

Order exactly that. Some people prefer to dose it in a third bottle so they can regulate their nitrate more closely based on the levels already produced by fish. Many people don't dose any KNO3 at all. I personally think it's unnecessary since my tank is well stocked but I still do a half dose. Here is what it comes with:

- Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) (to provide some Potassium, but mostly Nitrate)
- Potassium Sulfate (K2SO4) (to provide Potassium)
- Mono Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4) (to provide phosphate [it provides some potassium but that is needed in much larger amounts than Phosphate. It does give some Potassium, but compared to the other chemicals that you will add it's not much. This is, however, the only source of Phosphate that you will add])
- Magnesium Sulfate (MGSO4) (to provide Magnesium)
- CSM+B (this is your micronutrient mix. Everything else is macronutrients. The most important of the many nutrients included are Magnesium, Copper, and Iron.)

The recipe is:

Bottle #1 (macronutrient bottle), 59 grams of K2SO4, 65 grams of KNO3, 6 grams of KH2PO4 and 41 grams of MgSO4.

Bottle #2 (micronutrient bottle), 80 grams of dry Trace Element mix (CSM+B).

Fill up both bottles with 1 liter of soft water (each) and shake. Wait over night until dissolved. You can do the same with 500 or 250 ml bottles, just cut down the amounts to 1/2 or 1/4 of their original size as needed.

This is a good TPT thread with comments by Tom Barr about the pros and cons of PPS pro versus EI. He states that they are actually fairly similar, just one starts at low dosing levels and one at high.

I personally would modify the recipe of PPS Pro to add extra K2SO4 (maybe 70 grams per liter), extra micronutrients (maybe 90 grams per liter), and much more KH2PO4 (I'd say 16-20 grams per liter. PPS Pro has it severely underdosed.

That's about it. I PM'd Tom Barr and he told me that fertilizer is not that important. If you make co2 a non-limiting factor (meaning there is more of it than the plants will ever need. This is difficult because you don't want to gas your fish), and make fertilizer also non-limiting, then your plants can grow to maximum capacity based on your light levels, without any deficiencies. It was found (or at least most experienced TPT members seem to belive so) that algae is caused by excess light, not so much nutrients. Specifically, any algae (for the most part) can grow with too much light, but the only ones that grow due to nutrient problems are GSA (green spot algae) and BBA (black brush algae). GSA is due to too little PO4. BBA is due to too much PO4, but this problem can be fixed by adding more co2.

That's basically the run down on it. It seems like a lot but it really isn't too much.

By the way, some of this could be wrong. I'm not saying that this is all right necessarily, or that this is my own knowledge, only that this is what I picked up from Tom Barr and other members on here and TPT.
 
if the molly is a female and has ever been in a tank with a male (lfs)then she will be able to have a bunch of frys
 
if the molly is a female and has ever been in a tank with a male (lfs)then she will be able to have a bunch of frys


Yes and that won't be a problem because the OP doesn't want fry. If they did they would buy more than one.
 
I think what Micey is trying to say is that if the molly is female there's a decent chance it will have fry irregardless if there are any other mollies in the tank -- pretty common with female live bearers if they ever spent time in a tank with males at the LFS.

Not sure how mollies and goldfish came into the discussion though.
 
Brilliant post, fish person. I'm going to order from the company you recommended.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Aquarium Advice mobile app
 
That's about it. I PM'd Tom Barr and he told me that fertilizer is not that important. If you make co2 a non-limiting factor (meaning there is more of it than the plants will ever need. This is difficult because you don't want to gas your fish), and make fertilizer also non-limiting, then your plants can grow to maximum capacity based on your light levels, without any deficiencies. It was found (or at least most experienced TPT members seem to belive so) that algae is caused by excess light, not so much nutrients. Specifically, any algae (for the most part) can grow with too much light, but the only ones that grow due to nutrient problems are GSA (green spot algae) and BBA (black brush algae). GSA is due to too little PO4. BBA is due to too much PO4, but this problem can be fixed by adding more co2.

Points bolded for reference.

#1 EI is designed around supplying everything in excess, PPI around providing the minimum necessary. In accordance with this philosophy (which I agree with and have been preaching for ages), EI should be the regimen of choice.

#2 I disagree with. IME (and what appears to be prevailing wisdom), BBA is another CO2 tattle in most cases, although can be an organics issue is tanks with generally poor hygiene. I and many others that use EI dose phosphates well in excess of what will ever accumulate in BBA, and we by no means have a corner on the BBA market (I haven't had BBA in a tank in years).
 
Points bolded for reference.

#1 EI is designed around supplying everything in excess, PPI around providing the minimum necessary. In accordance with this philosophy (which I agree with and have been preaching for ages), EI should be the regimen of choice.

#2 I disagree with. IME (and what appears to be prevailing wisdom), BBA is another CO2 tattle in most cases, although can be an organics issue is tanks with generally poor hygiene. I and many others that use EI dose phosphates well in excess of what will ever accumulate in BBA, and we by no means have a corner on the BBA market (I haven't had BBA in a tank in years).


Actually I think we are both in agreement. I agree entirely with #1, although I didn't make that clear enough unfortunately. What I meant was that Tom said that EI and PPS pro have very similar dosing ratios, but EI is dosing the maximum amount the plants could ever use and PPS of course the minimum to keep them healthy. But if you overdose PPS then you pretty much get EI. I don't know. Thats my take on it I guess. This is one of his comments:

It will be very lean for many aquariums, but fine for some as well. So dose more till you see no added improvement in growth. It's also too lean in terms of PO4, so modify that. Likewise, EI can be done and reduced down, they both add the SAME things, ferts.......... one starts low, the other starts high and then is moved to suit.

#2 was also my mistake. It wasn't very clear I suppose. Here is Tom Barr's comment:

"Some do not like GSA which is associated with lower PO4. Some folks add PO4 and get BBA, this is because the CO2 was limiting. If they limited PO4 stronger than the CO2....then they do not get BBA."

So does he mean that its not the excess PO4 but the limited co2 that causes BBA?
 
#2 was also my mistake. It wasn't very clear I suppose. Here is Tom Barr's comment:

"Some do not like GSA which is associated with lower PO4. Some folks add PO4 and get BBA, this is because the CO2 was limiting. If they limited PO4 stronger than the CO2....then they do not get BBA."

So does he mean that its not the excess PO4 but the limited co2 that causes BBA?

Then yes, we're in agreement I believe. All is in accordance with Liebig's Law.
 
Back
Top Bottom