Dwarf Gourami Breeding New to it

[FishCrazyBenBOMB]

Hello AA members, long time no see.

(Backstory, you can skip this if you want haha)
I use to be a very active member of this forum and many others years ago. I just recently got back into the aquarium game.

I came back to the hobby to breed neo shrimp like I have in the past, but this time do it much better.

So I knew I needed to a feeder tank to begin with to help jump start my other tanks. I took the slow process of cycling a tank from scratch and now have a decent looking 20G long community tank with 2 dwarf sunset/honey dew gouramis(a 3rd added today, reason for post), 2 golden killifish, 2 red nose tetras, 4 Orange von rio tetras, and I added 3 otos today to help with algae.


(You can skip to here )
So the reason for the post. I purchased these two sunset gouramis originally and I just happened to get a male and female. They have been breeding the last week or so and actually spotted a pepper spec sized fry today. I have second tank ready for my neo shrimp breeding, but weather has been too cold to ship so I have a spare tank just sitting there. I figured while I wait I could raise some gourami babies.

At the same time I worried the female would get harassed too much by the male and I was really wanting to get another female to lighten the load. Since its too cold to order for sure females i went to my only local fish store. The worker had no knowledge for fish (mistaken otos for plecos when I asked for them), so I had to go off the best of my own knowledge I've learn from research online. I have no previous experience with breeding gouramis.

I've brought the 3rd gourami home today and I've noticed my female gourami heavily harrasing the new gourami I have just introduced. I have even noticed my female attempting to do her breeding dance with the new gourami. Does this mean the new gourami I picked is a male? Will females attempt to mate with other females?

The shop said I could bring it back if I find out it's a male. I just need some opinions on how you guys might move forward in this situation with what I'm attempting. I'm a little stumped and would love some experienced advice!

Thanks for hearing me out, I've been feeling great getting back into the hobby. I absolutely love it and missed it a ton.

Ben

 

[Andy Sager]

Pics of the new fish would help. The female going after the new fish could have 2 possible reasons. Her wanting to breed with whatever other Gourami was present ( they get a little brain damaged when in spawning mode ) or you are mistaking flirting with fighting.
I usually remove the females after the spawn as they generally don't serve a purpose other than potentially eating the fry. Thick lip variants are no different. More fish in a spawning tank is not a good thing with gourami species. Once the fry start to free swim, the male needs to be removed as well. Keep water movement to a minimum and make sure the tank is sealed after removing the male so that the air above the water is humid for when the fry develop their labrynth organ. I usually use saran wrap for this.

 

[FishCrazyBenBOMB]

Pics of the new fish would help. The female going after the new fish could have 2 possible reasons. Her wanting to breed with whatever other Gourami was present ( they get a little brain damaged when in spawning mode ) or you are mistaking flirting with fighting.
I usually remove the females after the spawn as they generally don't serve a purpose other than potentially eating the fry. Thick lip variants are no different. More fish in a spawning tank is not a good thing with gourami species. Once the fry start to free swim, the male needs to be removed as well. Keep water movement to a minimum and make sure the tank is sealed after removing the male so that the air above the water is humid for when the fry develop their labrynth organ. I usually use saran wrap for this.

Alright thanks for the advice. I'll try to get some pictures tonight of all of them to help confirm the sexes of each.

 

[FishCrazyBenBOMB]

Here's an update.

I got the second 20G long aquarium decorated with plenty of hiding spots and floating plants. As well as a sponge filter.

The female was still being very aggressive towards the new gourami so I went ahead and moved the known pair to the new aquarium and left the new gourami in the original aquarium with the other community fish. The male has seemed pretty timid since the move but the female is just as active as before. It has only 24hrs at this point so I'm hoping the male comes around soon and starts building a nest.

I'm debating on moving the new gourami over to the new aquarium as well. Thoughts? I suppose I should probably wait until I confirm its sex correct?

 

[Andy Sager]

Something is very backwards here. Males are usually the more aggressive of the sexes and you keep saying it's the female. I suggest posting a numbered pic of each fish so that we can sex them by number. If you are looking to breed them, it does not help having an intruder in the tank. Keep the pair by themselves.

 

[FishCrazyBenBOMB]

Something is very backwards here. Males are usually the more aggressive of the sexes and you keep saying it's the female. I suggest posting a numbered pic of each fish so that we can sex them by number. If you are looking to breed them, it does not help having an intruder in the tank. Keep the pair by themselves.

I also read that the males are suppose to be the aggressive ones. Ill be posting photos shortly.

 

[FishCrazyBenBOMB]

So the up close one with his find spread out, I figure this is the male. He is the one who builds the nest.

The gourami with the two black dots is the female and the aggressor of the new gourami.

The photo with a gourami near some driftwood is the new gourami. couldn't get a great picture of the new gourami, I can take another if needed.

 

[Andy Sager]

Well, because this is not a natural color for the fish, I am looking at physical attributes for gender ID instead of color. Pic #1 ( you call male) seems to have a full abdomen, the same as pic 2 ( with 2 spots) which would suggest they are both females. The new fish ( bottom pick ) seems to be a darker, richer color which would suggest a male. Neither 1 or 2 have a real long pointed dorsal fin of a male either. If the one you call a male is blowing a large nest ( not just a tiny collection of a few bubbles), it should be a male but it rally doesn't look like one to me.
Wish I had a more concrete answer for you.

 

[FishCrazyBenBOMB]

Well, because this is not a natural color for the fish, I am looking at physical attributes for gender ID instead of color. Pic #1 ( you call male) seems to have a full abdomen, the same as pic 2 ( with 2 spots) which would suggest they are both females. The new fish ( bottom pick ) seems to be a darker, richer color which would suggest a male. Neither 1 or 2 have a real long pointed dorsal fin of a male either. If the one you call a male is blowing a large nest ( not just a tiny collection of a few bubbles), it should be a male but it rally doesn't look like one to me.
Wish I had a more concrete answer for you.

Interesting. Yes the first one I am calling the male has created a large bubble nest 2 or 3 times since I've had the pair. The male is much more vivid in color and he is much smaller then the female. The male was aggressive in protecting the bubble nest, but with no bubble nest he is a lot calmer then the female. So I'm pretty sure I know two for a fact.

The third one I'm still questioning. While they were all in the community tank with other fish and there was a bubble nest present. The male would protect the nest and chase the female away, then the known female would constantly harrasse the third unknown sex gourami. She wouldn't go after any of the tetras, killis, or otos I have in there though.

Who knows, maybe we can get some more opinions in here haha. I'll try to get better pictures of the unknown sex one today.

 

[Andy Sager]

Honey Gourami are interesting in that males in a pair are usually a little smaller than the females. The issue may be the size of the female is too large for that male and so the male needs to grow a bit more before it can successfully spawn with that female. Her chasing the third gourami is a little unusual but they do not like intruders when trying to spawn so "alls fair in love and war."
I would suggest that if the unidentified fish is larger than your male, try setting it up alone in a tank and once it is plumped up a bit and in better shape, introduce the female and see if they spawn.

 

[FishCrazyBenBOMB]

Well I got some bad news, I found my original female dead this morning. She had been hiding the last few days, which seemed odd but I did nothing about it. Last night she wasn't eating so I knew something was up then and should of tried moving her back to the original aquarium.

The male and female were both so happy before I moved them and they just did horrible in the breeder tank I setup for them.

So much regret, can't believe I did that. I feel so freaking bad.