Dying Fish and Confused Beginner:(

[freshwaterfishfan]

Hey everybody, I just lost 2 clown loaches and about 9 neon tetras to what I believed to be ick. I first noticed this on my clown loaches and did some research. I then went out to buy some meds but when I got to my local petsmart they said they dint have it and told me to use ick-guard tablets. The guy also told me to turn the temp up and put an aerator stone in my 20 gallon aquarium. I continued the treatment for about 1.5 weeks with no luck, and actually noticed some fish missing. I took a closer look and my snails were actually eating the tetras that were piled around the airator stone. At that time I also had a beta and a rubber lip pleco who were fine. After this I washed everthing in my tank with boiling water and set it up anew. I let it cycle for a while before I added my two surviving fish. I later got 3 Mickey mouse plates who seemed to be happy and peaceful but today I realized ick on their tail fins and my betta has been spending it's day by the heater. Please, I would appreciate any advice on how to get rid of ick or how to treat my fish, I don't want to lose anymore.

 

[alcarinhwesta]

First of all, I would suggest removing tbhe betta to a seperate tank, as they are usually aggresive. Secondly, to address the ich problem, try to find a local aquarium store for both meds and replacement fish. Generic pet stores are not very well trained in fish maitenance. (If anything, they only know the basics of setting up and cycling a tank. You may have to start your tank completely over and cycle it. I know I'm a newbie too, but I think finding an aquarium shop is the best way to go.

 

[Tasha]

So you now have plates and what are the 2 other surviving fish?? I personally like to try and treat ick with increased temp and possibly some aquarium salt. The temp need to be 86 using an accurate thermometer and turning the heat up a couple degrees a day. One you longer see ich spots you keep the heat up another 1-2 weeks I believe. You need to do frequent vaccum and PWC's. Remember also when the heat is up you loose oxygen in the water so a lower water level or oxygen bubbler is needed. The sooner you start treatment the better. The more advanced it becomes the harder it is to treat. Invertebrates cannot handle salt FYI so keep this in mind for any shrimp or bottom fish you may have. GL

 

[freshwaterfishfan]

Thanks alcarinhwesta, I have found a aquarium store that specializes in freshwater aquariums. But what do you mean by replacement fish?
And Tasha thanks also, I will try the temp an salt treatment tomorrow. The two surviving fish are a rubberlip pleco and a crowntail betta.

 

[alcarinhwesta]

As opposed to buying new fish at petsmart or a generic pet store you should buy them at the aquarium store...they'll be better at not selling you contaminated fish.

 

[glassbird]

At that time I also had a beta and a rubber lip pleco who were fine. After this I washed everthing in my tank with boiling water and set it up anew. I let it cycle for a while before I added my two surviving fish.

We might need to back up a little here. First, are you sure it is ick? Ick looks like fine grains of salt. Google ick and check out some pictures. If it is definetly ick, then your two surviving fish probably still had it, and just transferred it to the "clean" tank.

Ick tends to be a problem that pops up when fish are stressed. I am wondering if your tank is truly cycled. Many people new to this hobby think that letting the tank run for a while (a day, a week, etc.) is cycling a tank. It is not. The term "cycle" refers to establishing beneficial bacteria in the tank that can then process the waste that the fish produce. This process usually takes several weeks, minimum. Without this bacteria, ammonia builds up in the tank, stresses the fish, and then they are wide open to diseases...like ick.

So forgive me for asking, but do you know about the nitrogen cycle? Do you have test kits for pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate? If so, can you give us those numbers? With that information, we can help you better. Also, what size tank is this?

 

[freshwaterfishfan]

My ammonia levels, along with the nitrite and nitrate are .25. My pHis 7.6. I'm pretty sure my tank has cycled, but just in case are their any visuals that are directly linked with cycling? And I did some research as to what ick looks like and what I have found is similar to what is on my fish. I also realized my pleco is covered in ick, but my betta is as clean as the day I got it.
I recently started the temp increase and salt treatment, add noticed my fish either be relieved that there is salt and start swimming happily, or freak out that their is salt.

 

[freshwaterfishfan]

Pleco just died...instantly too, one second I see him swim I turn around to look at the clock and all of a sudden he is upside down. It's a shame, I liked the little guy.

 

[alcarinhwesta]

I'm sorry to hear about your pleco.

 

[glassbird]

OK. How long has this tank been running since you cleaned it with boiling water, and what size tank? and when you say salt treatment, how much salt have you added per gallon and how did you put it in? I prefer treating ich with salt, and raised temps, but you need to keep track of how much salt has been added per gallon and add it slowly.

There are no visual signs that a tank is cycling. Doing daily water tests and writing down the results to keep track of it over time is the only way to know. An ammonia reading of .25 is ok for now, but if it gets any higher you will need to do a water change. You must know how much salt you have per gallon, and replace the salt removed when you do the water change. For example, if you have a ten gallon tank with 1 teaspoon per gallon and remove 5 gallons, you have to add back 5 teaspoons of salt when you add back fresh water. I am not saying that 1 teaspoon per gallon is the right dose...I need to recheck my understanding of the right dose before I suggest that, as it has been a while since I had ich issues.

There are several stages in the life cycle of ich. The dots on the fish are only one stage. There is another stage that lays in the gravel for a while, and another that is swimming free in the water. The water stage is the only stage where the salt can kill them. Increasing the heat speeds up the lifecycle so that the salt can kill them faster. Cleaning the gravel with each water change will remove some of the gravel stage, which will help. Do you have a gravel cleaning siphon?

Sorry to hear about the pleco. For now, do not get any more fish. Wait until your tank is fully cycled and the ich is long gone.

 

[freshwaterfishfan]

The tank has been running for about a week now after I cleaned it. The first time I put about a tablespoon because that was all the non-iodine salt we had left. I first let the salt dissolve in a cup of the aquarium water and poured it in.
Yes I do have a siphon and I am planning on doing about a 25% water change tomorrow

 

[Homedog98]

First of all, I would suggest removing tbhe betta to a seperate tank, as they are usually aggressive.

I disagree. While bettas can be aggressive it's usually only towards their own species or fish that look like them, and is in my case more of an act of a territorial fish, and isn't a problem. I have 3 black skirt tetras in a ten gallon (temporary) with a male betta, and he never nips or attacks. Lots of others have had wonderful experience with them (ask bettababe,) and I have as well. I believe that with the appropriate size tank, and research prior to purchase, they make great community fish.

 

[FoxRob]

The tank has been running for about a week now after I cleaned it. The first time I put about a tablespoon because that was all the non-iodine salt we had left. I first let the salt dissolve in a cup of the aquarium water and poured it in.
Yes I do have a siphon and I am planning on doing about a 25% water change tomorrow

Was that table salt? Not too sure what the difference is but I was told to only use aquarium salt.

 

[freshwaterfishfan]

Yes it was. I was told that aquarium salt is not essential as long as the salt that is used does not contain iodine, it apparently harms the fish.

 

[glassbird]

Salt that does not contain iodine or anti-caking agents (usually yellow prussiate of soda) is what you need. Table salt is fine, as long is it meets those requirements. Aquarium salt does not contain either, but its an expensive way to buy salt! I used pickling salt... very cheap, and fine grained, so it dissolves fairly fast.

A tablespoon of salt in a 20 gallon tank will do pretty much nothing against ich. I still need to get the right dose, but if my memory is right I used 3 tablespoons per gallon when I treated a batch of ich infested goldfish, several years ago. (The salt was added one tablespoon per gallon, every 12 hours, for three doses...so eventually 3 tablespoons per gallon. You do not add it all at once!) It might have been 3 TEASPOONS per gallon. I will check on that and get back to you. Either way, do a good water change tommorow (50% would be good), vaccuum the gravel, and buy a box of pickling salt. You will need it, and I will get the right dose for you.

My concern here is that I do not know much (at all) about bettas. Can they handle high salt levels? Anyone?

One week is not enough time to cycle a tank. The good news here is that the only way to get fish thru a cycle alive involves water changes...possibly daily. And doing water changes with gravel cleaning also helps remove ich...so you will be doing both. At least you have a larger tank, and very few fish. That is to your advantage right now.

 

[glassbird]

Well, did a bit more research and it appears that it is possible to kill ich with JUST heat...no salt. I had no idea. Do you have a heater? Can you turn it up a few degrees a day until you get it up to 86 degrees? If so, give it a shot. That would be much easier than keeping track of salt in and salt out with water changes.

This is a very interesting article...
Freshwater Ich? Yuck!

The info about heat is about half way down.

Another question...are you using test strips, or drop-type test kits?

 

[mudraker]

My concern here is that I do not know much (at all) about bettas. Can they handle high salt levels? Anyone?

Yes, but only as long as it takes to treat the tank.

The thing to remember when treating fish for ich is that it is a PARASITE. It is fairly easy to erradicate from your tank permanantly if you understand its lifecycle.

An easier method than salt is to use both heat (86 degrees, not one degree lower is important) and Kordon brand Ick Attack.

It is also important that your tank be fully cycled and free of ick before you restock any more fish.

Read this link to better understand the lifecycle of ick so you can rid your tank of it.

You too Glassbird. You'll learn a lot.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f17/if-you-think-your-fish-have-ich-38796.html

 

[glassbird]

Too funny! Mudraker, you and I both posted links to the same article!

 

[freshwaterfishfan]

Thanks to everyone for the help! I will turn my temp up to 86 over the next two days and add salt. But 3 tablespoons seems like a lot, is that really the dosage?

 

[glassbird]

Not for bettas. I would go with the heat method, and maybe the Ich Attack medication mentioned by Mudraker.