Fish-IN Cycling

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Noah091

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
17
Location
Wisconsin
Hi guys,

This thread is in reply to http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/fish-in-cycling-step-over-into-the-dark-side-176446-4.html but anyone can help me.

I am somewhat confused with what I am reading here compared to what my LFS is telling me. I originally wanted to do a fishless cycle starting out. I am starting brand new with all fresh equipment and am new the hobby. My LFS told me to do fish-in cycling, as its much easier, much more natural and virtually fool proof. I purchased 4 golden pristella tetra and was told to put in my tank 24 hours after I filled it up and used prime. They told me feed them very small amounts and do not do any water change for 6 weeks.

Does this seem like bad advice? Everywhere I see talks about doing water changes during cycling. The store said that the fish I purchased day 1 will be fine and this is the best way to cycle my tank.
 
Well you could do it that way but you will be exposing the fish to both high ammonia and nitrite levels.

If you want to do a fish in cycle then you need an API master test kit. After filling the tank and getting your filter and heater running you can add the fish BUT every day you'll need to check ammonia and nitrites in the beginning and do a WC anytime either ammonia or nitrites get above .25ppm. Later on you'll also add testing nitrates daily to see how far along your cycle is. Once you have 0 ammonia and nitrites but have at least 10ppm of nitrates your tank is cycled for that amount of fish. But each time you add fish you will need to watch ammonia and nitrite again and do WC's as needed to keep levels no higher than .25ppm again as more BB builds up.
 
Thank you very much for the response. My test kit will be delivered this evening. The Tank has been up and running for about a week. The fish were added just 3 days ago.

I had the tank water tested before I purchased the fish and the LFS said that it looked good and to go ahead and add them.

When the kit gets here today i'll go ahead and test the water now and post the results.

Any kind of help in the future will be greatly appreciated!
 
Hello Noah...

Fish In cycling is very efficient and I'd say relatively "Fool-Proof", if you cycle with hardy fish. Tetras aren't the best, but since you have them. The key to this type of tank cycling is testing the water for ammonia and nitrite. You test every day and when you have a positive test, you remove about 25 to 30 percent of the tank water and replace it with pure, treated tap water. This will keep the water chemistry reasonably safe for the fish. You want to leave some of the ammonia and nitrite for the growing bacteria.

You simply test the water daily and change it when needed. When several daily tests show no traces of either of the above toxins your tank is cycled. The process will take roughly a month.

If you add fish, then add just a few and repeat the above steps until your tank is fully stocked. You can add some floating plants like Anacharis to help filter the tank water. This plant thrives in water with a bit of nitrogen (ammonia and nitrite) in it.

B
 
Thanks for the reply BBradbury. I will do what you two suggest. When the kit arrives I will test. What you guys recommend sounds realitvely easy, but I do have a small problem.

When I went in to my LFS to get my tank water tested, I also brought a sample of my tap water. The nitrate levels in both my tank and tap water were the same (around 15). The guy at my lfs said he had never seen tap water that had nitrates in it like mine did. He was nice enough to provide me with 6 5-Gallon buckets and fill them up for me free of charge. My only concern with having to do water changes daily, or even weekly, will be the hour long car trip to the store, followed by the hour return trip home, simply for water.

Also, a side note about the Anacharis is that it is illegal to ship to Wisconsin and I am unsure where to get it. So far I have 1x Java Fern, 2x Amazon Sword Plant, 2x Undulata Cryptocoryne 1x Anubias Nana and 3x Hygrophila, Temple Narrow Leaf with two peices of medium-sized driftwood in the tank.
 
This is the way everyone used to do it. In my opinion, it was the impatient ones that ran into trouble.

To be honest, this is standard advice from a shop. Testing the water before putting in any fish is, IMO, a waste of time, because you are unlikely to get any readings until you add an ammonia source. If your fish were added three days ago, then the next few days will be relatively crucial in that your ammonia should have peaked after three days, before BB start to develop naturally. So, if the fish have been effected by high ammonia, you will see any detrimental effects over the next few days.

Nitrite will peak anything up to 3 weeks later. In my experience, the gradual, natural build up of nitrite can be tolerated by many fish... I am repeating myself now, but I have raised carp fry in water with 8ppm nitrite with no detrimental effects on health or growth. Everything I had learned previously from the aquatic trade told me that adult carp should have been dead, let alone fry.

If you are concerned about water quality after testing, then do a series of small water changes - this is more readily tolerated by your fish, rather than the added stress (if there is anything wrong with your water the they will already be stressed) of a large water change.
 
Hello again Noah...

Don't fret over the higher nitrates. This form of nitrogen is at the end of the cycle, so even higher levels in the 50 ppm range will at most stress your fish a tiny bit. You can use the water from your tap to do the water changes. Just use a treatment like Seachem's "Safe" to remove the chlorine and chloramine. These are chemicals put into the tap water to make it safe to drink, but they are toxic to aquarium fish.

Your plants will help use some of the ammonia and nitrite that results from the dissolving fish waste. So, the more plants, the better. Floating plants are best, but most any that don't have special lighting needs will do.

You're the "Waterkeeper". So, you just need to change roughly a quarter of the tank water when your test shows a trace of either ammonia or nitrite. Test daily and change the water.

B
 
Having nitrates in tap water isn't the best. Are you planning on using live plants? If not you will have to watch nitrate levels in your tank so they don't raise too high. While many people allow higher levels in their tanks nitrates are best kept at 20ppm or lower.

After the tank has cycled you have a couple options you can use to keep nitrates lower. There are different types of media you can use that lower nitrates. One I know that works well is this... Aquarium Chemical Filter Media: Fluval Lab Series Nitrate Remover.
You can add this for a day or two after your big weekly water change and then recharge it with aquarium salt afterward.

Another option is to cut your tap water with RO water. If you have 15ppm of nitrates in your tap and you used 50% RO to 50% tap water you'd only be adding 7ppm of nitrates.

The last option is to use some plants. Depending on lighting you can add some to the tank but you can use frogbit or water lettuce which are both floating plants that absorb a lot of nitrates. Both also can be grown in low light. Plants use ammonia and nitrates but do not use nitrites.
 
The tests are in.

So the first thing I did was test by tap water for nitrates.. the test came back between 40-80, which doesn't seem good, and I am actually quite upset about as my wife and I trying for a baby and reading that nitrates in tap water can cause problems in young children, or babies in the womb.

For tank water we are at
Nitrates 5 ppm
Nitrites .25 ppm
PH 7.6
Ammonia .25 ppm

Should I perform a small wc to get the ammonia and nitrites lowered or wait a day or two for these to go up?

(The water we are using in the tank is from our LFS, not our tap).
 
The tests are in.

So the first thing I did was test by tap water for nitrates.. the test came back between 40 and 80, which doesn't seem good.

For tank water we are at
Nitrates 5 ppm
Nitrites .25 ppm
PH 7.6
Amonia .25 ppm

Should I perform a small wc to get the amonia and nitrites lowered?

(The water we are using in the tank is from our LFS, not our tap).

You can do a WC to lower them but you for sure do not want the ammonia and nitrite levels to get any higher than .25ppm.

If your tap water has 40-80ppm I honestly would find another water source to use in your tank. I also wouldn't be drinking it.
 
I know the feeling I have been fighting my tap for months it comes back 40ppm too. I have to ask if you live in farm country like me. all the ferts trickle down in to the water an make an aquarist's life miserable! I just went with re-mineralize RO water and that seems to have solved that issue, and my sanity! But I also have a german blue ram and they don't tolerate high levels of nitrate. You just have to remember it's all a balancing act. But with regular water changes you'll be fine!
 
Your Tap Water

The tests are in.

So the first thing I did was test by tap water for nitrates.. the test came back between 40-80, which doesn't seem good, and I am actually quite upset about as my wife and I trying for a baby and reading that nitrates in tap water can cause problems in young children, or babies in the womb.

For tank water we are at
Nitrates 5 ppm
Nitrites .25 ppm
PH 7.6
Ammonia .25 ppm

Should I perform a small wc to get the ammonia and nitrites lowered or wait a day or two for these to go up?

(The water we are using in the tank is from our LFS, not our tap).

Hello Noah...

Have you checked into the EPA standards for nitrates in tap water? If I'm not mistaken, the maximum is 10 ppm for nitrates and 1 ppm for nitrites. It might be beneficial for you to check with the local public water people and get the skinny on your tap water. This is way more important than your tank's water chemistry.

B
 
Hello Noah...

Have you checked into the EPA standards for nitrates in tap water? If I'm not mistaken, the maximum is 10 ppm for nitrates and 1 ppm for nitrites. It might be beneficial for you to check with the local public water people and get the skinny on your tap water. This is way more important than your tank's water chemistry.

B

I agree although we do not know where Noah hails from in respect to a country. EPA standards only apply to US public water sources. Private wells are not regulated and many other countries have very lax standards in respect to public water supplies in comparison to the US.
 
I live in Minnesota and my water has nitrate 40ppm. Actually as of last week they have gotten so bad that not only will I not put it in my tank I won't drink it either. I have city water. Last week mine tested at
Ammo 2ppm
Nitrite 1ppm
Nitrate 40ppm
PH 7.8 Which was a huge improvement from the 8.8
Phosphate of 2ppm
GH30 dkh
KH 15 dkh
So I am guessing that the epa doesn't test everything all the time.
 
I've talked to my landlord and left a message for our city department in charge of water and sewage so hopefully they get back to me.

Anyway, I went ahead and did a small wc this morning, probably about 20-30%. Waited and hour and retested. Both nitrate and ammonia were 0. Will pick up about 30 gallons of good water from our lfs this week and will do wcs as needed.

Thanks guys.
 
Water Issues

I agree although we do not know where Noah hails from in respect to a country. EPA standards only apply to US public water sources. Private wells are not regulated and many other countries have very lax standards in respect to public water supplies in comparison to the US.

Hello jlk...

Good to know. His location not withstanding, the water appears to be potentially unsafe. Better to check with the powers that be whatever he lives, just to be on the safe side.

B
 
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Got my plants in today. What do you guys think? Any obvious blunders here?
 
I checked and you are correct Nitrite is never supposed to over 1ppm and nitrate is never supposed to over 10ppm according to the EPA standards. Now this has me wondering who I contact about this.
Drinking Water Contaminants | Drinking Water Contaminants | US EPA

First step for yourself or Noah is to contact your local municipality in charge of your water service. Expect to have to jump through some hoops to get anywhere but legally, if you request it, they will send out someone to take samples of your tap water for testing and report back with the results. There is no charge for this. You can also look up your municipality online- most have their recent water reports available to view. You can also contact the EPA's Safe Drinking Water Hotline at 800-426-4791 for more help.

As a last resort, you can also pay for a private company to test your water and use these results as proof there is an issue that needs to be addressed for public welfare if the water is in fact unhealthy for human consumption. Just realize what is considered acceptable for humans may not be healthy for fish.

As with anything with government, expect a lot of run around and having to talk to a slew of different people before you are able to receive any concrete answers or help. Good luck!
 
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