Fishless cycle - ammonia not dropping

[blert]

If your ph is 6, then thats the reason for your tank stall. If you havent done a water change yet, its time for a big one to restore your buffers. Then add @2ppm of ammonia & lets see how things look in 24hrs. Make sure you keep a close eye on your ph (daily) because as your tank revs up processing everything, your ph may drop again.

+1
Yup, time for a large water change to boost the buffers and such. Keep testing the pH and do a large water change if it dips back into the low sixes. If you have to do more than one PWC to get the pH up then so be it, it won't hurt anything just give it a half hour between water change and test so everything gets mixed well.

 

[gtincubus]

Okay, thanks all, water change/conditioning/ammonia addition is done, we'll see what happens tomorrow. And now I'll remember to test the pH from now on, lol!

 

[gtincubus]

So the good news is that the 2ppm ammonia was down to 1ppm this morning, 12 hours later. The bad news is that my pH had bottomed (6.4) this morning (it is naturally ~8.4). So I did another big water change, tested the pH an hour later and it was 8.3. Just tested it again after one more hour and it is 8.0, so it is definitely dropping. I assume I need to do another PWC but should this problem keep happening? Will a series of PWC eventually stop the pH from dropping (without disrupting the cycling process)?

 

[librarygirl]

You might want to get a glass of tap water and leave it out for 24 hours (stir it occasionally) then test PH again; this is your true PH after the water outgasses and what your normal tank's PH should be. It's normal for it to change some as the water ages. For example, the PH out of my tap is 8.4 but gasses off to 7.2 which is what my tank's PH is. As long as it doesn't drop too low, <7, you should be ok. WIth that said the high amount of conversion that's happening tends to bottom out PH. If it keeps happening you may need to buffer the water with something like crushed coral or argonite, but let's see what happens first before we try that. Once the cycle completes the PH should remain stable, but during cycling sometimes it can fluctuate and yes if it drops fast and stays too low it can cause a cycle disruption.

 

[blert]

The pH of your tap water will change and a slight drop is nothing to worry about. If it dips back into the mid sixes then do another 50%.

Check the true pH of your tap water by letting a cup sit and gas out for 24 hours (give it a stir every so often).

Edit: beaten by librarygirl. It's always the quiet ones.

 

[gtincubus]

Okay, so the dropping that is happening now may be perfectly normal, it could just be the water settling to it's 'real' pH...so just keep an eye on it unless it drops below 7, then it is time for a water change?

 

[librarygirl]

Okay, so the dropping that is happening now may be perfectly normal, it could just be the water settling to it's 'real' pH...so just keep an eye on it unless it drops below 7, then it is time for a water change?

Yep If it keeps dropping below 7 you may need to look into adding the coral but let's see what happens.

 

[gtincubus]

As of this morning (a bit less than 24 hours after the last big water change w/ 2.5ppm ammonia added), my pH was 6.5ish, nitrites are 1-2ppm, ammonia is 1-2ppm. Didn't test nitrates. 24 hour pH test isn't ready yet.

At least the cycle is still progressing...

 

[jlk]

I agree with Librarygirl's suggestion of adding a buffer. Your ph dropped quite a bit since yesterday's water changes. I think you will see things move along pretty quickly once the ph is stabilized.

 

[librarygirl]

I agree with Jlk, I think it's time to buffer the water. Most LFS sell bags of crushed coral or argonite in the saltwater section. Unfortunately they only sell large bags and you won't need much. Get a mesh media bag or clean (never washed with detergent) nylon stocking and put a few pinches of coral in. Add the bag to your filter if you can fit it, or near the filter intake. Keep testing PH and add more coral as needed until the PH rises and stays above 7.

 

[gtincubus]

I have some Seachem Neutral Regulator...would that work in lieu of the coral? If I use the coral, will it need to stay in there long-term or just during cycling?

 

[jlk]

I would for a natural option rather than chemicals. Other things you can use would be crushed shells or limestone. You can pick up a small container of crushed oyster shell in the bird section of a pet store. I have also seen small bags of coral in the chain stores but it would need to be crushed/smashed up for use. You will likely only need it for cycling purposes but leaving a small amount in your tank longterm wont hurt either.

 

[gtincubus]

I added the neutral regulator last night as a short term solution, will head to the LFS this morning to get crushed coral. Ammonia was 0 this morning, nitrites 1ppm, nitrates 40-0ppm, pH 6.4. That's the fastest the ammonia has ever dropped so I have a feeling the pH has been the problem all along, if I can just keep it up enough above 6 it seems like the tank might be close to cycling!

 

[rotorhead22]

What type of fish are you thinking of getting? If you are thinking of getting African Lake Cichlids then you definitely need to add Aragonite or crushed corral to your substrate and add limestone to your decor to buffer your tank. If you are getting tropical fish then you won't need to have the pH at 8.2 - 8.4 but more like ~7.4, so you won't need as much carbonate.

 

[deb_unlimited]

So, what excuse did Santa give?

 

[gtincubus]

Santa called me and said the tank wasn't ready yet, so he brought Ethan a present for Christmas and then because he's been EXTRA good this year he's going to come back soon with some fish too.

So I added the coral; between the coral and the buffer I added my pH has been holding in the mid 7s for a couple days. KH in my water that had been sitting out for the pH test was 2, in the tank is still 0 (I added a little more coral last night to try and bring it up).

Ammonia is now processing 3ppm down to 0 in 12 hours (woo!) but both nitrites and nitrates are at the top of the scale...I'm assuming I need to do a PWC (a big one?) to bring those back down so the cycle doesn't stall?

Rotorhead, I'm getting tropical fish. I have a sand substrate because I intent to get some corys, so I didn't want to have coral in the substrate. I was hoping that once I added fish/plants in and the water could normalize, so to speak, I wouldn't need to keep the coral in there anymore. If I have to keep it long term I'll have to try and figure out how to make room for it in the filter...right now it's hanging out by the filter intake in a giant mesh bag, lol.

 

[Mrs.h2012]

Santa called me and said the tank wasn't ready yet, so he brought Ethan a present for Christmas and then because he's been EXTRA good this year he's going to come back soon with some fish too.

So I added the coral; between the coral and the buffer I added my pH has been holding in the mid 7s for a couple days. KH in my water that had been sitting out for the pH test was 2, in the tank is still 0 (I added a little more coral last night to try and bring it up).

Ammonia is now processing 3ppm down to 0 in 12 hours (woo!) but both nitrites and nitrates are at the top of the scale...I'm assuming I need to do a PWC (a big one?) to bring those back down so the cycle doesn't stall?

Rotorhead, I'm getting tropical fish. I have a sand substrate because I intent to get some corys, so I didn't want to have coral in the substrate. I was hoping that once I added fish/plants in and the water could normalize, so to speak, I wouldn't need to keep the coral in there anymore. If I have to keep it long term I'll have to try and figure out how to make room for it in the filter...right now it's hanging out by the filter intake in a giant mesh bag, lol.

Yes I would do a big water change to bring the nitrites and nitrates down, if they get to high it can stall the cycle.

 

[deb_unlimited]

Thanks for the update. I needed a good chuckle this morning!

 

[gtincubus]

I did the water change and I still have high (close to the top of the scale if not at the top) readings for both nitrites and nitrates. I've looked around and seen a few people recommend cutting back the ammonia drastically at this point...I've been dosing 2.5 ppm every 12 hours (it always drops down to 0 within 12 hours now). Should I dose less or do it less often? I don't want to kill that first set of bacteria...

 

[gtincubus]

My wife just tested and the nitrites actually tested as 0! I'm having her add just a little bit of ammonia to verify that it'll get processed through quickly but it looks like the tank may finally be cycled!!!