Fishless Cycle Finished! A good read if new to the forum

[weldon]

Cory hanging out on my makeshift cave (terra cotta pot):

They really are amazing to watch filter the sand (so glad I got pool filter sand with these guys). They take in a mouthful of sand and then kind of vibrate their mouths really fast (I assume filtering out the food), and discard it out of the gill area. I never expected them to do that (thought they would grab a mouthful of sand, swish it around, and then spit it out.

OK, now you've done it. I've been thinking that if I got a larger tank (my son's new tank has given me the bug) I would like to have a small school of Cory's in there. Now I DEFINITELY have to get Cory's.

 

[maxwell1295]

I agree. Cory's are going to be one of my last additions. I'll probably get at least 4 of them for my 30gal. 7Enigma's cory is beautiful.

 

[7Enigma]

Ha, ha! I got 3 for my 20gallon, and the one in that pic just sits on that pot all the time (I hope he's eating or something when I'm not around). The other 2 are like a perfect pair, one follows the other or they go side by side, eating off the bottom. That pic was me trying to hold my hand steady, I'll go try to snap one with the tripod, and see if I can't get a better shot. Here's my final tank shots for anyone who cares (the first 2 I took in pitch black with a flash, the last one from above with no flash and tank light on only).

 

[weldon]

I meant to add that I would like to do sand substrate as well. I like how it looks in your tank. The tank does look a little sparse without any plants in there, but the pool filter sand looks great.

 

[7Enigma]

Weldon, the coolest thing about the cory cats are with the PFS, they actually take it in their mouth, process it for food, and then blow it out their gills. It's really wild to watch, and I don't think they could/would do it with gravel or pebbles.

I went in to take a better shot of the cory for you guys and RIGHT as I lined up the perfect shot, my battery went dead (go figure!). Here's the best I could do after that, not as good as the one I wanted to take though:

The pair of cory's on the hunt for food:

The lone cory by himself:

hope you like them.

 

[rich311k]

Tank is looking great 7. Nice job and good looking fish as well.

 

[7Enigma]

Thanks Rich,

Woke up today and did a water test before feeding, and still 0 ammonia and 0 nitrIte. I think its safe to say that I had enough bacteria present so that the fishless cycle worked perfectly (have not had to do a PWC since I got them on Saturday). Here's a cool thing I thought up to feed my fish (especially the bottom dwellers):

That's right, you can now have a veggi-clip anywhere in your tank, and you don't have to get your hands dirty in the process. Just put the end of the vegetable (can't use really soft ones) on the clip and stick it to the side gently, and then slowly lower it to the bottom.

I started up a thread in the general discussion area about odd uses for the Magfloat, if you guys/gals have some, let me hear them!

 

[7Enigma]

UPDATE: 4pm

One of my cory cats has seemed very stationary since I got him. He would move around every once in a while, but never seemed to hunt for food. I found him today under my pot, and he is on his side. I can't tell if he is stuck to the side of it, or lying on his side. I got a flashlight out since its difficult to see in there and he does seem to be breathing. I really think he might be a goner. I'm going to keep an eye on him tonight, and if no change, I might try to nudge him or something. Unfortunately he's in a VERY inaccessable place to get to, so I'll have to disturb the whole tank to get to him. It was actually the guy that Weldon reposted the pic of. He would just sit on the top of my clay pot, I had just hoped he was finding food when I wasn't around.

UPDATE: 4:45pm

I just took him out of the tank. When I went to get him with the net, he started to move, but clearly had a problem. He couldn't orient himself, just seemed to do a downward spiral. I have him in about 3 1/2 gallons of tank water right now, and will keep an eye on him for a 1/2 hour. If nothing has changed I think I'm going to have to put him down. Anything I can try?

UPDATE: 6pm

I put him back in the main tank, but in an area where I can easily get him out if I need to. The bucket he was in I needed to add water back to the main tank. He is definitely still breaking fine, but doesn't do anything at all. I feel bad that I've probably stressed him worse than if I had just left him alone, but I really thought he was dead. I submerged a piece of flake food, and got him directly on it, but he did nothing. I have no idea what else to do.

 

[7Enigma]

UPDATE: Wed 7am.

Fed them this morning. No new damage has been seen on the other 2 cory's. All Oto's accounted for. They ate voraciously.

I didn't see the 3rd cory this morning. He must still be inside the pot. There were no elevated nitrIte or ammonia readings, so I'm hoping he is still alive. The more I think about it, I think he was basically eaten alive, and probably lost a lot of his fins that help him balance. I feel really horrible for him, I don't want to kill him, but don't want him to suffer.

Would it help to get more cory's? They seemed to stick together a little bit (2 anyway), I wonder if 3 or 4 would be better at fending off the tiger's. And I'm kind of doubtful that having 6 tigers causes them to still be agressive, but having 8 would make them less. I'm pretty much at my max for this 20gallon tank, and since its a 20gallon high, and they are spending 90% of their time near the bottom, its pretty cramped right now.

 

[7Enigma]

UPDATE: 12:30pm Wednesday

Came home to check on the fish. Couldn't find the cory, figured he was still in the pot. Was going to feed some flakes and noticed a small cherry barb, belly up at the top of the tank. I quickly fished him out. His eyes were missing, but otherwise no sign of trauma. I don't know what killed him, though I did have to do a PWC last night after removing the cory, and the temp did go up about 1.5degrees over 15-20minutes (I added the water back very slowly but it did raise the tank temp). I don't think such a small increase in tank temp over 15-20min could kill him, but who knows.

I then lifted the side of the pot to check on the cory, and sure enough he was dead. R.I.P. I fished him out as well.

So I immediately tested all parameters again (except nitrAtes). 0 ammonia, 0 nitrIte, pH about 7-7.2, tank temp 78.4F. I'm completely stumped. I had gone to PetSmart to get a breeding cage to put the cory in, but they didn't have one, and apparently I don't need it anyway now. I did pick up some Hakari freeze dried bloodworms and these things were like crack for my tiger's. Not a single one made it even near the bottom as the tiger's ate every single one at the top of the tank in about a minute. I got a 0.7oz box of it for $7.49 which seems pretty expensive, but I figure it will last quite a while.

I wanted to get some algae wafers for the cory's but they were very expensive for such a small amount. I'll continue to try to suppliment their diet with food on my magfloat, and make sure they dont' get too skinny.

Well, that's about it. I'm bummed, but feel somewhat relieved since the cory was probably a goner, and I didn't want him to suffer. The cherry barb has me completely stumped, but at least he went quickly. All the other fish look like normal....

UPDATE: 5:30pm

I can't take it anymore. These 2 cory's are being harrassed constantly by the tiger's and the dominant cherry barb. Fortunately none of their fins appear to be nipped yet, but I'm sure that's how it started for the one that died. He probably was completely exhausted and just sat their and got eaten alive.

Temporarily one of the cory's seem to be worse off than the other. He either is too stupid to find a good spot to catch a breath, or just unlucky. Since I don't have a holding tank, I used my gravel filter (its a large one), and stuck him in the tube so that no other fish can get to him. He freaked out for a couple of minutes but I turned off the light and went out of the room for a couple minutes and now he is on the bottom, hopefully getting some much needed rest.

The other cory is still be harrassed every couple of minutes. My wife is out shopping and I asked her to go back to Petsmart and get a tank divider. I will give the 2 cory's about 3-4 inches of the left side of the tank. I don't know what I can do in the future for them.

1. I feel bad that they are limited to roam the tank

2. I'm a bit annoyed since these guys were to be my ground cleanup crew

I can only imagine this harassment will get worse as the barb's get bigger, since the cory's are currently the largest fish in the tank. Are their any brand of catfish with a little more spunk that won't take this treatment from the other fish (and will stay the same size as the cory's)?

 

[7Enigma]

Wow, what a bad week for the tank.

I had a long winded post, that screwed up during posting so I'll recap yesterday quickly:

-got a tank divider and put the 2 remaining cory's and 1 Oto in the 3" space on the left side of the tank. This was because the cory's were being attacked constantly

-due to installation of the divider the water got VERY cloudy. I didn't want to do a PWC to keep from stressing the fish further, so I wanted to wait until Thursday after work to do a good 50% PWC.


Now fast forward to today:

-Tank parameters were 0 when I left this morning.

-Everyone looked healthy

-Water was still very cloudy

-When I got home, I did my daily count and could not find an Oto (one of the 2 in the main tank section).

-I found him dead inside the "cave" portion, where I found the cory almost dead a couple days ago.

-I pulled him out, he looked fine as well, except for being dead of course

-I did a 50% PWC, and in the process the tank temp dropped about 1.5degrees F

-Tank is still cloudy but not as bad as before

-Everyone looks good except for a cherry barb that is just sitting in the corner at the bottom. He's breathing, but does not seem spunky

-I hope he doesn't die too....

 

[bosk1]

I know that barbs are notorious nippers, but I've never heard of them going after cats before. Sorry to hear about your situation. If it were me, I'd say "later" to the barbs and go with something else.

 

[7Enigma]

UPDATE:

2pm superbowl sunday

Well the past couple of days now has been uneventful (about time!). No more fish have died, and I felt bad that the Oto and 2 cory's were in such a confined space. They did seem less stressed, but I wanted them back in the main tank to be on cleanup crew, and have more room to roam.

So BEFORE letting them back in, I went to a small mom and pop petstore near my parents place and picked up a breeder/injured fish floating tank, just to be safe. I figured if I put the cory's back in the main tank and they were still being picked on constantly, I could put them in the breeder tank for a couple days, put them back in the main tank, back in the breeder, etc. It would have been a pain for both of us, but I would have done it.

So last night I took the divider out, and sure enough within 5 minutes, they were being attacked constantly. But here was the interesting thing. It seemed that only ONE of the tiger barbs was the culprit. I continued to watch him for 10-15minutes to see if anyone else joined in, and nada. So I said, "Why punish the cory's when I should be punishing the tiger barb?".

I grabbed my net and put the bad barb in the breeder (cleaned it first of course), and magically the attacks have stopped. Every once in a while they get kicked out of where they are roaming, but its no where near the constant torture this little bastard barb was causing. So I don't know what to do with him.

I doubt, "rehabilitation" is going to work, though I will wait a couple of days and see if he'll behave in the main tank. If not, he's going back to the breeder, until I can deal with him. My LFS I got him from has a no return policy, but I don't know if that is flexible for certain reasons (like, I've spent a bunch of $$$ on fish at this place, and I just want to give him back (I frankly could care less about a refund, he was $2).

So for the meantime, everyone is happy (except maybe the terror barb), and after a 75% PWC this morning it looks good (was still very cloudy and wondering if its an bacterial bloom or something rather than just the sand being stirred up, as its white and not green cloudy, but now it looks much better).

I now have a slew of foods for them, and will rotate and mix and match to keep them interested. The cory's LOVE the algae wafers I got (Hakari), and that mixed with blood worms and flake food, with the occasional cucumber slice should keep everyone happy and healthy.

I did also buy some sinking shrimp pellets, but these seem to be all but ignored, and have to be gravel vac'd out the next day or 2. I might try 1 every week or something, and see if they ever take too them, otherwise, it was a waste of 5bucks.

I also rearranged the place a bit and put another small section of clay pot in, to offer one more hiding spot in case any other barbs get physical with my cory's. I still have not found any good quality live plants for the tank, and my local PetSmart does not carry any of the silk plastic ones (only hard plastic, that 1. look fake, and 2. could probably injure the fish if they get chased into it).

That's about it...

justin

 

[Graybeard]

Barb's are a real PIA...20 years ago my stepdad tried to convince me that Cherry Barbs where the coolest fish in the fish world and every tank needed 6-8 for the "school factor". He never had any fish survive for long except a red-tailed black shark and a black Angel. Angel's body was at least 3" in diameter and she didn't put up with chit from anybody.

Cherry Barbs would be great in a cichlid tank

 

[7Enigma]

Figured it was time for an update in case anyone is actually reading this thread:

UPDATE: Sunday Feb19th 4pm

It has been a great 2 weeks. No deaths, no signs of trouble (I'll get to that in a sec), and the fish have now taken to the shrimp pellets (especially the very small barb that gets ousted during normal flake feedings by the other big barbs).

It had been almost a week and a half and my wife felt bad for the barb in the breeder cage and asked when I was putting him back in the main tank. I had made sure he was fed like the rest (but slightly less hoping he wouldn't be as physically big as the rest in the tank), but thought it was time to see if this rehabilitation worked. To my astonishment he has been a model fish in the tank. I have seen no increased aggression towards the cory's, and everyone seems to have settled in nicely.

The barbs have FINALLY taken up the upper 1/3 of the tank for most of the time, alleviating some of the extra stress from everyone being at the bottom.

My 2 giant yellow "cherry barbs" have not changed at all since I got them. I've checked countless websites and several different fish stores and have not been able to find another species of barb that looks like these 2. I'm just waiting to find out that they will grow to be 3 feet long or something. 8O

I've also finally gotten some flora in the tank. I have 4 java ferns from the LFS that I got the fish from placed around the tank, with 2 more very small ones that I have in the breeder net until they get big enough that I can plant them (my filter kept sucking them against the intake so I couldn't just let them float). So far my barbs have had a wonderful time playing in and around the plants, and it has given a bit of extra cover for the cory's and the Oto's (I've seen the Oto's gently cleaning the ferns).

Today I also finally got around to getting a background for the tank. After a fiasco last night where they cut the background an inch short, I went back this morning and got a new one. Used some vegetable oil and the inside portion of a cd case as a squeegee to put the background on, and it looks pretty good (not to many visible bubbles can be seen). The fish at first schooled and bunched up in the front of the tank, but after a short acclimation period are now back to normal. It definately gives the tank added depth, and helps to make it look less barren (until the java ferns get larger).

About 20min ago I finally took my seed material shells that started the cycle out of the filter and replaced it with a foam pad insert I've had floating in the tank since I started to cycle (figured it would get some bacteria on the pad to buffer against a small spike from removing the seed material.

So that's about it, I can't tell if the fish have grown since I got them, but they definately seem less skittish, and when I open the top of the tank regardless of what I'm doing, the tigers run to the surface thinking its feeding time! My camera's battery is dead, so I'll get some pictures tonight when I get it charged. Thanks again for everyone's help since the beginning of this thread!

justin

 

[7Enigma]

OK, here's some pics of the final tank setup (for now):


2 barbs competing for top dog (one of them was the aggressive one I had in the breeder tank)

final tank pics

 

[7Enigma]

OK,

This is my last update to this thread unless questions get asked. This picture was taken today. All the plants are real, I have tests for the plants, and dose with Flourish 1-2times a week. I started a DIY CO2 setup 10days ago and the changes have been incredible (even with my relatively low/low-medium light). Thanks for taking the time to read this thread since I started this hobby.

justin

 

[7Enigma]

I lied, here's an updated pick with many more species of plants courtesy of czcz:

 

[JAS]

Thanks for posting all your experiences. I've been looking at getting a ~20-29 gallon tank for myself. The amount of information on this forum is intimidating, but success stories like yours give me hope for a happy tank of my own. Originally I was not going to use live plants, but after seeing you plants flourish, I may have to reconsider.

 

[7Enigma]

Jas,

Thanks! If I had to do it over again I would definately go for the 29 gallon if its possible. So many larger species of fish (or odd shaped such as angel's) can be purchased, as well as more interesting scaping of the tank.