Goldfish sipping air too often?

[MT28]

Hi I'm somewhat new to fishkeeping -- I rescued my comet goldfish, Kaji, from a fair about 6 months ago and have been diligently researching and trying my best with him since.

Kaji is now about 5in long and lives in a 36gal 24"L x 15"W x 21"H bow front tank that has been set up for about 2 months but cycled almost immediately since I used media and gravel from an old tank. (I know that he'll outgrow this eventually, but it's the best I can do for now). He appears very healthy -- he's active, a nice orange color, has a healthy appetite and no apparent signs of disease.
The tank parameters also seem within normal range (and consistent):
nitrate: 10
nitrite: 0
ammonia: 0
pH: 7
KH: 80
GH: 120
temperature: 77 F
I do 20% water changes once a week and treat with Seachem Prime. I feed him twice a day, Hikari mini sinking pellets in the morning and a small amount of blanched veggies at night (lettuce, brocolli, bok choy, spinach etc.) and never let anything fall to the bottom (he eats each bite from my hand).
There are no other fish in the tank and no live plants only fake plants.

The thing is, ever since he's been in this tank I've noticed that he goes to the surface to sip air quite a bit. He doesn't do this constantly or hang at the surface and his gills don't look like they're overworking or red. He isn't lethargic either, but he does go to the surface for a quick sip of air every 5 min or so, sometimes more often.

I thought that maybe the tallness of the tank and the higher temperature meant he wasn't getting enough oxygen even though I have two HOB filters (an Aqueon Quietflow 30 and a Fluval Aquaclear 50), so a week ago I set up a large bubble wand that spans the length of the tank and shoots up lots of bubbles. Last time I changed the water (last Sat, 5 days ago) I also added 6 Tbsps of aquarium salt (1T/5 gals), hoping that would help him breath, but he still goes to the surface just as often.

I'm beginning to think it might not be the oxygen content of the water, but maybe some kind of parasite or disease? But he doesn't show any physical signs of distress. He does swim along the side of the tank sometimes but not in a distressing way like he's itchy. Any ideas as to what it could be? Do I need to increase the oxygen level further?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give!

 

[Delapool]

Hi, has he been doing it ever since you got him without any change?

 

[pip walters]

The fish may have a swim bladder problem. Goldfish and many other carps gulp air and pass it to the swim bladder via capillaries in the gut in order to regulate the quantity of gas in the swim bladder and therefore regulate bouyancy. Clearly, there is no disease invloved as the fish is otherwise healthy. It could just be that the capillary system between the gut and the swim bladder is slightly malformed through genetic abnormality.

 

[jlk]

Is the tank heated or is this temperature just the ambient temp in respect to the air? If heated, I would consider dropping the temp down into the low 70's.

I disagree that he he has an issue with his swim bladders as buoyancy problems would be apparent. Common goldfish (fair fish) rarely suffer the degree of buoyancy issues that afflict fancies.

Piping can be a learned behavior. However, due to the fact that feeders are mass produced, parasite-ridden and typically suffer an untold degree of duress and damage as result of being kept in horrific conditions as a carnival prize, my guess is this fish has some degree of permanent gill damage. He tries to compensate for this by taking regular 'sips' of air.

I would recommend a full course of praziquantel to eliminate the possibility of flukes as they are the most common cause of gill damage and other health issues in goldfish (aside from unhealthy water). Aside from this, it sounds like you have done a wonderful job of rescuing him and providing him with a happy, comfortable home!

 

[Delapool]

Hopefully we get the OP back. Every 5 mins seems a lot. Yeah, I must admit I shudder to think about the goldfish I used to buy at the markets and cycle home with.

 

[pip walters]

All goldfish are mass produced - that doesn't mean they they are going to be disease riddled. It would make no sense at all for fish farms to produce millions of diseased fish! As for learned behaviour, that needs a more scientific explanation.

Not all swim bladder problems cause severe bouyancy issues. If the fish has a swim bladder that deflates a too quickly, then that may explain trips to the surface to refuel with air to maintain bouyancy.

You have had your fish for six months now. Have you seen any deterioration in health - fin damage, excess slime production, fish flicking against the gravel or ornaments etc? If the fish had gill flukes in enough numbers to cause the gill damage that would necessitate surface gasping, you would have seen at least one of those indicators and the fish would almost certainly be permenantly gasping due to the accumulation of mucus in the gills.

A strong salt dip of 25g per litre for 15 to 30 minutes is effective agakinst gill and skin flukes and many other ectoparasites and is always worth a try as it is inexpensive and avoids the need to add chemicals to an otherwise healthy tank. The salt you have added to your tank is a good basis for stress reduction and is correct for your type of fish, so well done in taking that precautionary step.

I think, if there is any gill damage, then it would more likely be caused by ammonia IF the fish had been kept in poor conditions at some point. Do you know how it was stored at the fair?

 

[MT28]

He used to be in a smaller tank before I moved him to the 36 gal 6 months ago and didn't used to sip air at all until I introduced him to the new tank.

And his current tank isn't heated-- I just keep it at room temperature, usually between 75-77.

Thank you all for your replies-- I'll try treating for flukes just in case and if it turns our he does have some kind of permanent damage or deformity, I guess I'll just have to try to make it as comfortable for him as possible.

Would his breathing problem make it difficult for him to live with other fish? When he outgrows this tank I was considering moving him to an outdoor pond that has koi in it. I read that comets can do okay with koi-- is that true?

Thanks!

 

[MT28]

In reply to Pip, Kaji wasn't in great shape when I first got him-- I had to put him straight in a tank before cycling when he came home from the fair (my friends who actually win him didn't want him so I had to find a home for him fast). Even with frequent water changes he developed fin rot and popeye after about two weeks. I treated with maracyn 2 and he recovered fully but it's possible he sustained permanent damage from the ordeal.

What's the safe way to do a salt dip? I've read about it a bit, but it seems like it requires a separate sick tank (which I don't have).

 

[pip walters]

In reply to Pip, Kaji wasn't in great shape when I first got him-- I had to put him straight in a tank before cycling when he came home from the fair (my friends who actually win him didn't want him so I had to find a home for him fast). Even with frequent water changes he developed fin rot and popeye after about two weeks. I treated with maracyn 2 and he recovered fully but it's possible he sustained permanent damage from the ordeal.

What's the safe way to do a salt dip? I've read about it a bit, but it seems like it requires a separate sick tank (which I don't have).

Ok, this is interesting. He has had bacterial problems and probably internal bacterial issues judging by the popeye. It could be then, that the capillary system supplying gas to the swim bladder has been damaged and nw he is in a deeper tank, the extra pressure may be affecting him.

The only way to test this would be to reduce the water level or put him in a shalower tank and see if the gasping stops again.

Still try the salt dip, but at a lesser dose of 15g per litre for upto 30 mins. Just take a couple of litres of tank water, dissolve the salt, add the fish then return him to the tank after the dip. Remove him before the half hour if he shows signs of stress, but try and leave him in for at least 15 mins. Aerate the water if you can during treatment.

 

[MT28]

I'm a little hesitant to do the salt dip since I've never done it before and read it could be dangerous. A couple questions:

If it is indeed flukes and I don't have a separate quarantine tank, won't my fish become reinfected with it after the salt dip? Does it make more sense to just treat the tank with prazipro (or something like it) to begin with, or does a salt dip have added benefits that outweigh the risks?

Another maybe stupid question-- if there's already a low concentration of salt in the tank, will this cause discomfort for him when he comes out of the dip?

I guess since he seems so healthy ( zipping around the tank, snapping up everything I feed him from my hand, doing the happy fish dance) I'm reluctant to do something that could cause him a lot of stress.

Also I've been examining his gills and oddly they don't move rapidly and they're a pinkish orange color when they open (not bright red or dark purple). Besides that he's been sipping air for almost two months so if it were parasites wouldn't there be other signs by now?

So basically should I do the prazipro and/or the salt dip anyway just in case?

Maybe the damaged gill and added pressure in the deeper tank theory is correct-- I'm not sure how I can significantly decrease the water level while maintaining filtration but I'll decrease it as much as possible and see if he goes to the surface less.

I really appreciate all the help!

 

[jlk]

He will be fine in a pond with koi if you decide to move him in the future. Prazi is extremely safe and very easy to use. It does not effect bio filtration, inverts or plants. Its very effective against flukes. I would still recommend a course to eliminate a possible issue.

Fish can lives for years with flukes with no symptoms and it's the most prevalent issue with commercially bred goldfish. I have yet to purchase a commercially bred goldfish that did not scrape positively for flukes. Long term, flukes cause serious damage and eventual demise. You will hard pressed to find any serious goldfish hobbyist or breeder that does not routinely address flukes as its standard practice.

 

[pip walters]

Well, personally I think after everything you have said, there is no need to treat with anything. The fish has been gulping air since you moved him, with no health deterioration otherwise. You appear to have a very healthy fish, so perhaps leave well alone. Also, if flukes are present where did they come from? Have you added any other fish, used live food, or added water from an unknown source? Sippin air isn't the same as gasping at the surface, which would be indicative of gill damage.

I have treated goldfish and carp in dips with even higher doses than I recommend here... there can be dangers, but far less so at the doses I suggest. Those doses are recommended in every book I have ever read that suggest salt dips and I have used them regularly with many very good results. IMO it is safer than adding chemicals that can affect water quality and possibly compromise filtration in a balanced aquarium.

It is important with any 'dip' treatment that you monitor the fish for the term of the treatment and remove them to the original tank if signs of undue stress are viewed. Placing the fish back in the aquarium with the low dose of salt will be beneficial after the dip, as it will help restore osmotic pressures to the ideal level for stress reduction.

I reiterate, though, that I don't see a need for treatment here. If there are any other details you have observed in the fish since you moved it to its new tank six months ago, please let me know. Importanrly, don't treat unless you are certain there is a definite threat to health.

 

[jlk]

Parasite issues need to be dealt with as a tank/system problem rather than a fish issue. While dipping may temporarily remove some degree of parasites (not all), once the fish is placed back in the tank, you are now back to square one. Redundant, unnecessarily stressful for the fish and rather pointless, IMO.

There are situations dips are appropriate but in the context of a system issue, the system needs to be addressed as whole, not just a singular aspect.

 

[pip walters]

Parasite issues need to be dealt with as a tank/system problem rather than a fish issue. While dipping may temporarily remove some degree of parasites (not all), once the fish is placed back in the tank, you are now back to square one. Redundant, unnecessarily stressful for the fish and rather pointless, IMO.

There are situations dips are appropriate but in the context of a system issue, the system needs to be addressed as whole, not just a singular aspect.

Where is the system issue here? You have taken one possible symptom and made a diagnosis of flukes.

There are no other clinical signs normally associated with flukes here and no indication so far that flukes could have been introduced. If the fish has been habouring flukes, then why has it only become an issue since the fish was put into a more spacious and presumedly less stressful environment?

As I have suggested, if flukes were present in enough numbers to cause enough gill damage to affect the need to gasp air from the surface, then there would be other signs.... excess mucus production, fin damage, rapid breathing, flared gills, weight loss.

Why go to the expense of multiple treatments with prazi products when there is little if any evidence of that particular parasite. At the very least, a salt dip would reduce or rid the fish of parasites temporarily and the behaviour MIGHT stop, indicating that there is a problem and system treatment could be started. However, if gill damage is the problem, then the behaviour will likely continue and we will have no clue whether flukes or any other arasites were the causitive agent.

I can guarantee to you that not all mass produced goldfish have flukes!

 

[Delapool]

Also I've been examining his gills and oddly they don't move rapidly and they're a pinkish orange color when they open (not bright red or dark purple).

I really appreciate all the help!

For the OP is this based on experience with other fish you have or had? I'm getting the impression you're familiar with fish keeping when I read back? Do you think this is something major?

Reading through this, you have some great advice and indeed I'm learning a lot. Ultimately you have to match it with your tank, see what you are comfortable with and matches symptoms - and keep asking questions because even the experts (and you have two here) will have different IME's.

On a side note I've always wondered if the meds you buy in say US are the same concentration as say UK or Australia - important to do your research on med reviews just in case. I'm not against meds at all otherwise.

With meds and salt dips I find that you have to have a backup plan just in case. The fish should be fine but we're dealing with the law of averages here. A dip - if the fish rolls over / doesn't do well you can just pop back in main tank. Same with treating main tank, I've run a small QT that I can pop fish in to if they don't like the meds.


For the experts - great discussion! I think one of the better ones I've seen and again I've learnt a lot.

 

[DragonFish71]

So here's a silly thought just based on something I've had happen with my goldfish when I kept them. Could he possibly have a piece of gravel lodged in his mouth? One of mine had a small piece lodged before and did "air sipping" quite a bit. As it became more of an annoyance, the fish started gasping and rubbing on things to dislodge the gravel.

Like I said, just a thought.

 

[em1981ma]

Add a bubble pump and get as much breakage to the water's surface with your filters diffusors as possible, it may help with aeration to oxygenate the tank more, just in case it is just a simple fact his in a deeper tank. It cant do no harm and bubbles look pretty and add interest for him

 

[MT28]

Thanks for all the advice! It sounds like I my options are either treat for flukes as a precautionary measure or simply wait and observe to see if he develops any symptoms of sickness.

I've noticed that he sips air more after I feed him and the frequency varies so it could be as simple as a bad habit of searching for food at the top (although I generally submerge food when I feed him).

After considering, I think I will treat him with praziamquel since, as jlk mentioned, it shouldn't hurt the fish or affect the biological filter (although I really do appreciate your input, Pip and it is good to know that a salt dip is a possible option for treatment and can be done safely).

This has really been very informative since I really don't have any experience with fish keeping apart from neurotic googling and following fishkeepong websites. Thank you all -- I'll post an update if anything changes!

MT

 

[Delapool]

Fish eh, who'd keep them. Good luck with it, interested in any progress.