"Hagen Elite sumersible heater" - not submersible?

[jsoong]

I picked this up thinking it was a good buy for a submersible heater. But on reading the instructions, it appears that this is NOT a submersible heater at all .....

The heater has a Max water line (but not a MIN ... strange), and the instructions specifically state not to submerge in horizontal applications! So why is heater labeled submersible? :x

So does anyone has one of these & actually submerge the whole thing? Or should I just return the stupid thing!

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I'd return it.....

 

[Swimmer32]

I questioned the same thing with the store owner when I bought my Ebo Jager, but he assured me it was fully submersible.

I've had mine running for a month or two now, and found it to be extremely reliable at maintaining a constant temp.

He said it was only in some countries that they're not allowed to fully submerge the heater, but that limitation was due the countries bi-laws and not a limitation of the heater itself.

 

[Rondory]

I think it has something to do with it being a Canadian product.

I bought my heater from Big Al's and it had a water line and a warning on it. The same exact heater sold in the US didn't have the water line and warning.

Does anyone know where there is a discussion on this? I know I read it somewhere.

 

[rich311k]

I have heard of heaters being sold as submersible in USA with a warning in Canada that they were not submergible.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

It's a canada thing.

 

[jsoong]

I don't know if it is a Canada thing. ... I poked around the hagen website & they don't even have the Elite in the US. In the Canadian site, they are being very vague on the submersibility of the Elite whereas the Tronic is listed as fully submersible.

OTOH, I have read on some US sites that the Ebo is not fully submersible either .... but people do submerge them.

I've emailed Hagen & see what they say. Unless they say otherwise, I'll return this one just to be safe & get either a Tronic or a Hydor Theo.

 

[voo]

i have 2 hagen elite heaters and just checked on the back of their boxes - both say it's a minimum water line (in the UK). Mine's been totally submerged for about a year now, so i'd say it's pretty safe.

 

[R&L]

Re: "Hagen Elite sumersible heater" - not submersi

the instructions specifically state not to submerge in horizontal applications!

Does that mean it's ok for vertical? I think for safety reasons(Canadian law maybe) that it can't be used horizontal. under water is under water.
I doubt it would really care if it was even upside down.

 

[BillD]

In Canada, the CSA requires a waterline for certification.

 

[Apocalypse_Gold]

the Ebo is not fully submersible either .... but people do submerge them

The Ebo (or ebo-jager) heater used to be a Jager heater and it was sold as fully submersible. When they add the Ebo it was no longer submersible, but it had not changed. It's just a matter of new regulations redefining what can be called submersible.

 

[jsoong]

OK, you guys are right, it is a Canada thing ..... I checked the tronic & the A/C submersibles in the lfs, & they all have the Max water line & don not submerge warning!

The only one with a fully submerbed label is the Theo - but that is an international packaging .... & prob in violation of a bunch of Canadian laws!

 

[jsoong]

Final update: got a reply from Hagen - confirming what we suspected:

"To be C.S.A. approved in Canada we have to specify a waterline, but the unit is completely submersible. "

 

[hc8719]

did it say not submersible only horizontally, some your only suppose to do vertically...

 

[jsoong]

Hagen rep says to place vertically for even heat distribution, but nothing about horizontal placement. Far as I am concerned, fully submersible should mean submersible in any position.

 

[kostasonia]

I have a SERA heater. Does anybody have it fully submersed in a horizontal position?

 

[Thebluyak]

my rena stealth heater is fully underwater and has been for awhile now.

 

[coldmachineUK]

did it say not submersible only horizontally, some your only suppose to do vertically...

I'm with that: I've never found a heater with instructions that say it's ok to put in horizontally. The way the filaments work are to do with a vertical set up. I'm not sure it's wise to put them in another other way (unless the specific model says so). I know of someone who recently lost a 200W heater which exploded for no apparent reason.

 

[mr funktastic]

i dis agree with that. my friend has ebo jager heaters and they are all horizontal in the tank. and also the filiment in the heater has no moving parts or anything so it should matter if it is side ways or not it will work the same. just my opinion though.

 

[hashbaz]

Placing a heater horizontal vs vertical WILL make differences. But I can't say how much difference.

If the thermostat is at the top of the heater (or at least some distance above the coil) part of the temperature it will measure is based on the warmer water riser from the coil. So when a heater is placed horizontal the warm water from the coil will not affect the thermostat. This will cause the thermostat to stay on longer than it would have otherwise. I have noticed that when I take a heater that is vertical and place it horizontal, my tank will increase in temperature by 3 or 4°F. Has anyone else noticed this?

Placing a heater vertical will also result in a lower surface temperature of the heater. Just like warm air, warm water rises. The longer it is in contact with the heat source the faster it will move. The rising water will stay in contact with a vertical heater longer than it will with a horizontal heater - this means the water will be moving faster past a vertical heater. Faster water flow causes more heat transfer due to convection and results in a lower surfice temperature. (Please note that the water currents from the filter and/or airstone may greatly overpower the tiny convection currents from the heater.)

After having said that - I have my heaters placed horizontal simply because it is easier to hide them.