Have nitrites but ammonia is not dropping

[jm667]

After about two weeks of cycling, I just started getting ammonia about 5 days ago. It has been rising every day, but the ammonia is staying at 4ppm. Is that a problem at all, or do I just keep testing that and once it starts to drop, then add a little more ammonia?

 

[thatmagicguy]

Are you doing a fishless cYcle?

 

[jcmelski]

Get a piece of shrimp and call it a day. The ammonia will drop off once the nitrites take over. I had the same thing with my 110g tank. I would have ammonia that wouldn't change in PPM, then I would have no ammonia and high nitrites and etc. give it time.

 

[jm667]

Yes its a fishless cycle. Ok, I just thought ammonia would go down when nitrites rose, but that makes sense then that it waits for it to take over more. I'll just keep an eye on it and keep testing it everyday.

 

[thatmagicguy]

If you are arbitarily adding more ammonia daily then yes, nitrites will appear and ammonia will also continue to register. Some people add ammonia and stop adding it when nitrites appear. What some people lose sight of is that there are two unrelated types of bacteria involved. And when ammonia is no longer being added then the type that convert it to nitrite stop reproducing and even go away. Likewise, when nitrite rises and falls it doesn't guarantee that these types of bacteria are still present in numbers to support a new tank full of fish.

I contend that fishless cycling in most cases is a waste of time, it is haphazard in most cases and leads people to the false belief that a tank will at some premeasured point be ready to be populated by fish.

There is no data that has been presented to come up with a standard forumula that guarantees a certain level of each type of bacteria. Indeed, because these bacteria are very slow growing and that the growth is variable on other factors like temperature, hardness, oxygen level, and other factors, there can be no standard formula.

Many people fishless cycle and add a tank of fish, oblivious to the fact that their tank will continue to "cycle" and have ammonia and nitrite spikes, a situation that may occur in a new tank that is cycled with fish.

Fishless cycling, unless fully understood and very carefully analyzed is a waste of time and as I said, presents a false security that a tank will be able to be stocked at the end,,,at the end which doesn't exist, because cycling never ends.

Bill

 

[mgamer20o0]

again going to have to disagree with you.

fishless cycle takes 4-6 weeks give or take. maybe you missed typed it?

I just started getting ammonia about 5 days ago. It has been rising every day, but the ammonia is staying at 4ppm.

maybe it should have read nitrites? what are your nitrite readings? it takes time to build up so even if it just started showing up it might take a little time to cut the ammonia down.

Fishless cycling, unless fully understood and very carefully analyzed is a waste of time and as I said, presents a false security that a tank will be able to be stocked at the end,,,at the end which doesn't exist, because cycling never ends.

yes the bio load will factor how much bacteria in there but still think its best then just dumping fish in a tank.

 

[thatmagicguy]

again going to have to disagree with you.

fishless cycle takes 4-6 weeks give or take. maybe you missed typed it?


maybe it should have read nitrites? what are your nitrite readings? it takes time to build up so even if it just started showing up it might take a little time to cut the ammonia down.



yes the bio load will factor how much bacteria in there but still think its best then just dumping fish in a tank.

Hi Gamer I was waiting for you to jump into this one. Lol.

A new tank, properly stocked and allowed to mature naturally should never see any levels of ammonia or nitrite approach anywhere near lethal and the tank will be far more stable than adding home use ammonia or dead shrimp in no predetermined doses for 6 weeks. I'd love to engage in a discussion. Bill

 

[mgamer20o0]

lol we are going to have to start our own threads vs going back in all the others. lol

 

[jm667]

Well I think I understand the fishless cycle routine. I understand you can do it with fish, but you would have to change the water constantly to keep the ammonia from going over a lethal level, while doing a fishless cycle, you can just leave the ammonia level high until it starts to drop since it is not harming any fish. Am I correct? I also understand that you can't just dump a tankful of fish when it is complete, and just add a few at a time instead. I would imagine the cycle changes slightly each time more fish are added, but doing the fishless gets it going so you dont have to worry about changing the water constantly during the first few weeks, right? So why wouldn't you want to do a fishless cycle?

 

[thatmagicguy]

Well I think I understand the fishless cycle routine. I understand you can do it with fish, but you would have to change the water constantly to keep the ammonia from going over a lethal level, while doing a fishless cycle, you can just leave the ammonia level high until it starts to drop since it is not harming any fish. Am I correct? I also understand that you can't just dump a tankful of fish when it is complete, and just add a few at a time instead. I would imagine the cycle changes slightly each time more fish are added, but doing the fishless gets it going so you dont have to worry about changing the water constantly during the first few weeks, right? So why wouldn't you want to do a fishless cycle?

You can start a tank with fish, if it is stocked lightly and correctly the ammonia doesn't have to spike to any appreciable level, and you do not have to do water changes. Nor does the nitrites have to spike. If you set up a new tank and overstock it then yes, there might be problems.

Regarding fishless cycling, the same can be said. By triggering nitrifying bacteria with household ammonia and seeing subsequent nitrites and even nitrates it does not automatically mean you can dump a bunch of fish in either.

So if you are going to fishless cycle for 6-8 weeks or whatever the arbitrary recommendations are you should still lightly stock and slowly build up the tank population. All of which can be safely achieved without doing a fishless cycle.

Fishless cycling, in my opinion, is a waste of time. That doesn't mean people should not do it, certainly if it makes people happy go for it.

I have seen people fail at it because they have been led to believe that the resulting tank is ready to be fully stocked. I had to fix dozens of peoples' tanks after they came to my store after failing with fishless cycling after reading about it on line and not having a full understanding of what is going on in an aquarium.

Bill