Having Problems With In-Fish Cycling

[ms_guy99]

Hi All!
Here are the details of my tank:
38 gallon tank,
Marineland Emperor 400 filter: with 2 ChemiPure full size bags, 2 hand cut filter pads, 2 cartridges filled with EHEIM EHFILAV Biological Filter Media (lava rock)
Tronic 200 W heater,
Solarmax HE 36" T5 lighting system (21watts) with 10, 000K daylight lamp
API Master Freshwater test kit.
1 Marineland blue light bubbler--not blowing bubbles....stuck to top of tank shinning light downwards
Water temp: 78F

Testing/PWC and etc details:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ase1WKZTyj4KdERIOHpkNnNVblhKNHZZcjY1VElLM0E

As you can see I cannot get the ammonia to go below 0.25. I just did a PWC yesterday and it is now at 0.5. I only surface cleaned the gravel.

I am stuck...I can either do a 50% PWC or I have another bottle of Tetra SafeStart that I can add since it has been 24hrs since last adding Prime....thoughts on what to do? I am surprised that with a bioball that had established bacteria from the aquarium consultant I paid that my tank is still cycling. I have nitrate readings of 20ppm and no nitrites...but the PWCs do not seem to be doing anything to get rid of the ammonia.

I did remove the two ChemiPures---so that could be the cause of the ammonia spike...as I am sure they had some bacteria living in them. I can perhaps add one back...and then deal with them keeping my pH at 7.6 later...Chemipures do a GREAT job at maintaining pH...haven't been able to get my pH to drop back to normal after adding them.......I know I need to get the pH down and normalized and then add them back in. I have read that 7.6 is not bad for the lemon tetras but it would be better if lower for them and what I plan on adding.

Is it possible the tank is cycled, the conditioners are giving false ammonia readings...but it is now a true reading since I removed the filter media.

TIA!!!

 

[librarygirl]

Not sure you need the chemipure; seems like it's similar to PUrigen or carbon and seems to be more for reef tank use than freshwater. It probably isn't doing any harm but not sure you need it. Replacing it with filter pads or ceramic rings or something for bacteria to form on might be better though.

From your chart it seems like ammonia was starting to 0 out until you added the platys (which are pretty messy fish). Have you tested your tap water for ammonia, nitrite, etc? It's possible there is some ammonia in your tap water.

I'd cut out the PH regulators; your normal PH is fine as long as it's stable. Trying to adjust it can just cause swings that aren't good for fish.

 

[ms_guy99]

Thanks for the fast response library girl!

I have tested my tap...pH is around 6.8....but climbs to almost 7.2-7.6 after sitting overnight. We do have a Rainsoft water filtration/softener. We will experiment to see what the water tests like when we bypass the system, fresh and after sitting overnight. But our local water is bad and occasionally has chlorine spikes...thus the system. The other parameters, nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia are all 0 for our tap...so at least the system is doing something!

Can't have to post and then go back to see what you wrote...using app. I know you said something about the Chemipure....my poor mommy brain just can't recall things like I used to!

 

[ms_guy99]

OK...have removed the Chemipures. I have more filter pad I can add to the filter....what do recommend, the filter pad or the ceramic rings? Any recommendation for brands if you prefer the rings? I have more filter pad I can cut to add to the tank. I may have to wait if I do the ceramic rings...if I throw more money at this tank I might be the spouse that does not make it to the new year! And we already have two more Chemipure packets to use for next year.

I will stop using the pH regulators.

 

[librarygirl]

Either one is fine; if you have filter pads on hand just use those.
Your PH is also fine for most fish; fish will adapt to your PH as long as it's stable; the fluctuating PH might have caused some problems for the fish and bacteria.

Put the pads in, keep testing and doing water changes as needed and leave the filter alone and stop adding PH adjusters. Once it's all stable the cycle should stabilize and levels should start to come down (until you add more fish). Let us know how things are going.

 

[ms_guy99]

Just an update....

So far so good...had a spare bottle of Tetra SafeStart and added it for the heck of it....can't return it (lost receipt).

Ammonia is going down and nitrates going up...now up to 40. No nitrites have appeared. Fish seem very happy!! Feeding 1x every other day...and once they slow down on the feeding frenzy I stop giving food and try to scoop out any remaining...but very hard to get those tiny flakes...need to look for a fines mesh net.... Water looks beautifully clear. pH has gone up a tad for from 7.6 to 7.8, but I resisted all urges to add a pH regulator and just hoping in a few weeks when we are done cycling it comes down....or just accept the fact this is where my pH will be and work with it.

Just cashed Christmas check so going to place order for ceramic rings. Any idea how many I should buy for a Marineland Emperor 400? Also is there any preferred brand? Since I'm an Amazon Prime member was going to get it from there to get it faster.... unless I find time to stop at local Petco. I also need a media bag or should I get another set of the Marineland grey cartridges? We already have a set holding lava rock.

Lastly....what goes closest to the bio wheel...lava rock or ceramic rings or does it not matter?

So after this filter will have lava rock and ceramic rings.... Glad to almost have something at it's final stage!

Thanks!

 

[Hholly]

It's weird that you have rising nitrates and no nitrites, unless your tank is done cycling. You should try to keep nitrates under 20ppm. 50% water changes are fine. Your pH is fine for most fish.
Good luck!

 

[Mrs.h2012]

It's weird that you have rising nitrates and no nitrites, unless your tank is done cycling. You should try to keep nitrates under 20ppm. 50% water changes are fine. Your pH is fine for most fish.
Good luck!

There's a lady from here that I keep in contact with regularly, we started our fish in cycles on the same day and we kept in touch to see how our cycles compared to each other, and she actually had nitrates show up before she even had a trace of nitrites, so it does happen.
+1 about doing water changes to keep nitrates under 20ppm.

 

[ms_guy99]

Holly....I thought it might have been done, but we keep getting trace ammonia readings. Even when I wait 48 hours after PWC using Prime. At first I thought it was due to the extra food on the bottom of the tank from over feeding, but when I do my PWCs and surface clean I a, not picking up nearly as much as I used to. And the few times I tried just to see what a deep clean would get on the other portions I was waiting for the days to pass till I could do it....not much was coming up.

Will keep doing PWCs until nitrates come down to 20 and ammonia is 0.....

Gosh.....I really really wish I did fishless cycling....why oh why did I not heed all the warnings and posts......cause like every other newbie you think you can handle daily testing and PWCs....but that is only half the battle.....

 

[ms_guy99]

Could not believe it when we tested the water today and pH was 7.8, ammonia was 0.5, nitrites 0, and nitrates was 80!!! And that was with us shaking the living life out of the test solution and tubes!

Did an immediate 50% water change. Tested an hour later...pH is 7.4 ammonia is 0.25, nitrites 0, and nitrates 5! Much better but not perfect....

I was concerned about the drop in pH....but the water change ended up taking over two hours....oldest son is home sick and work demands...since I only have 5gal buckets it was a gradual change....I hope....

Is it OK for me to do another 50% water change? Or will two 50% PWCs be too much in one day and I should just do maybe a 20-30% PWC now?

Wish I knew why the nitrates spiked....hope it wasn't from the TSS....
Really want to get this ammonia down to 0.....

TIA!