Help, black neons dying

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majolo

Aquarium Advice Freak
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
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West Central MN
1~What type of fish is afflicted? In addition, please describe what is wrong with the fish to the best of your ability (i.e. cotton like growth, bloated, etc.).

2 black neon tetras have died in 24 hours, out of 6 that were added on August 30. The first one I saw nothing visibly wrong with it, just found it lying on its side dead (yesterday, 2:30pm) in a plastic plant. This morning I saw another black neon lying on its side in the gravel, but it got up after a few minutes. However, it was listless, never swam level, and I could see a couple white spots on its fins (ich?). A couple hours later it was on its side in the gravel, stayed there for an hour, not breathing. When I got the second one out, I saw it's tail fin was gone. Both fish were removed after death. The rest of the fish appear active and healthy.

2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values.

This morning: ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate all 0ppm (there must be some nitrates, but I guess far below 5ppm, which is the first nonzero value on the AP liquid test kit card), temp 78F. I raised the thermostat 3 degrees since seeing white spots on the second fish. I haven't measured pH since adding the black neons, but it's been 8.0 every time I've checked.

3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?

55 gal, had fish in it since Aug. 11.

4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304) and amount of gph if known.

Aquaclear 300(70), 300gph according to them.

5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are their current sizes?

6 glowlight tetras, 4 remaining black neon tetras. All about an inch or a bit more. 1 ghost shrimp, about an inch.

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?

Last night, after finding the first dead fish, tested and found 0.25ppm ammonia (nitrites and nitrates read 0), so did a 13.5gal PWC. I had done my weekly PWC (same size) on Sunday the 27th. I haven't been vacuuming gravel much since I've been cycling.

7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?

The 6 glowlights since August 11 (cycling with them plus donated gravel from a friend's established UGF), ghost shrimp added 8/26, 6 black neons added 8/30. Drip acclimated them in a 1gal container, dripping about 2 gals of tank water in (runoff into a bucket) for a little over an hour, with an airstone in the 1gal.

8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?

Just the fish -- I should mention I've switched to double doses of Prime (2 capfuls) at PWC since my glowlights have gotten really stressed after every PWC and a local friend told me our water is heavily chlorinated (off-topic rant: out of all the chemicals we can test for, why isn't there a test for the one chemical everyone has in their water that's guaranteed to kill fish?!)

9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently?

Rotation of TetraCrisps, TetraColor flakes, and Hikari micropellets, with occasional freeze-dried bloodworm cut small. I've been feeding twice a day but quite sparingly since I've been cycling.
 
Do the white spots you mention look like grains of salt? If so it is ich and you need to get the temp to 87 reasonably quickly. And either lower the water level or add an airstone to increase aeration. Are the fish flashing on anything?
You could raise the temp as a precaution but it doesn't really sound like ich to me. I'd do a larger water change 50%, and keep a very close eye on the other fish. The fin being missing from the black neons may have been eaten by the other fish, not necessarily fin rot.If there is flashing in the tank, I would raise the temp.
Do you have plants in the tank? You tank does not seem to be cycled. Have you seen a nitrite spike at all in your tank?
 
Well, they looked about as much like grains of salt as any small white dot would. If you mean did they appear granular or raised, then no. Also, I couldn't see them on the fish after death, if that means anything. On the flashing, I have seen (maybe 3 or 4 times in the 3 weeks) one of the glowlights rub on the heater -- but only the heater. Wouldn't they flash on the decor & gravel too? If I raise the temp, is a (250 or 300, forget which)W Visitherm Stealth heater capable of raising 55 gal too fast if I just set it to 87F straight off?

I'll do the water change. Only plastic plants in the tank. I had a small nitrite spike, stayed below 0.3ppm, but it was clearly positive from 8/17 to 8/27. On 8/28 it tested definitely 0 and stayed there since. Thanks.
 
Ich looks like this . Raise the temps 1-2 degrees every 12 hours. They should be flashing on more than just the heater if it is ich. Setting your heater to 87 doesn't mean tank temp will go to 87. All of my heaters are set to a different number then the tank temp actually is. Using a thermometer for aquariums is the only way to know the temp of your tank.

Keep up on the water changes. Clean pristine water is the best defence against any illness. When your cycle is complete you should have 0ppm ammonia and nitrite and nitrates showing above 5ppm for a non-planted tank.
 
Right, I have a thermometer of course. My question was about just how fast the heater is capable of raising the temperature. 55 gallons of water is an awful lot of thermal mass, after all. I'm tentatively thinking it's not ich (of course I'll keep a close eye on the rest of the fish for it).
 
Update: I did about 50% water change yesterday, and have brought the temp back down to 78F by now. Water parameters yesterday tested the same as before (no detectable ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate; pH 8.0). No further fatalities, and behavior seems normal, but I just noticed one of the remaining black neons has a notch taken out of his anal fin. The edge of the notch is slightly milky white rather than transparent. The edge is smooth and not jagged. I'll try to post a picture if I can get one. From browsing on the web, could this be fungal fin rot? I have Pimafix on hand if that would be an appropriate precaution (also have aquarium salt and Melafix). Any advice? Thanks!

Edit: adding picture, the best I could get. The notch is in the circled area. You can't really see the whiteness here.
 

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Just an update. I'm almost done with the course of Pimafix, and all looks well. The damaged fin is healed almost good as new, and everyone seems happy (knock on wood). Thanks!
 
Semi-off topic: My shrimp like salt! Every type of shrimp I've ever heard of being kept in FW aquaria have various SW or BW origins. They just don't seem to mind being kept without salt either.
 
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