Help me get (re)started

[nisi]

I tried to cycle my tank with a fish (hadn't heard of fishless cycling until a few days ago) and I lost the fish
See previous thread if you want more details:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/need-help-cycling-fish-104562.html


I'm starting over and doing a fishless cycle this time. First order of business is to get the cycle started. Am I right in thinking that I should do that asap in the tank that we had the fishy in? There's no need to take it apart and start totally from scratch, is there? Probably better not to I would think, since the bacteria might have already gotten a start in that tank, right?

Next, I'd like some opinions on what I can/should do with the setup I have. I have virtually no budget to work with so I'd like to know what's possible with the equipment I already have. I can spend a little, like maybe $50 right away, but I can save up for future upgrades.

Here's what I have
- 5gal hexagon tank kit Eclipse Hex 5
It has a light and a filter, but it does NOT have a heater. I'm not even sure how I'd mount one to the tank.
- API master test kit
- gravel, and an assortment of fake plants and decorations
- cheap but effective gravel vacuum
- old mini desktop aquarium kit Aquatic Gardens 1 Gallon Corner Aquarium Kit at PETCO
probably too small to be useful for much, but as far as I know all the parts still work


Anything you recommend investing in right away? And, the big question, what kinds of fish can I get when the tank is ready? I absolutely love goldfish and I'd love to have one. I know the 5gal is too small for golds for long term, but if I start with a tiny one, and start saving up for a bigger tank...? Does that sound reasonable? Or would I be better off putting something else in the 5gal and waiting until I have the bigger tank for golds?

 

[jsoong]

I would continue the cycle in the current tank fishless .... you should have a bit of a head start.

It would be a challenge to keep a gold healthy long term in a 5 ... An experienced keeper dedicated to water changes (say twice a day) may be able to do it for a time, but mostly the water chemistry goes downhill really fast in a small setup and you end up with dead fish ... if not right away, then damaged in such a way that they live for months instead of the 5+ years of healthy goldies.

You can spend maybe $10-15 for a small submersible heater (25-50W) and that would allow you to keep a wide variety of small tropicals. If you go without a heater, the best fish for a 5 would be a school of white cloud mountain minnows. <If your house temp never goes below 75, you can also consider other hardy tropicals without a heater.>

PS - Look in Craigslist & other classified for a bigger used tank, you'd be surprised what you can find with $50 if you are patient ...... Too bad you are not in Edmonton, there is someone giving away a 30 gal setup complete for free on Craigslist right now!

 

[saffikeagan]

Some LFS near you might tend to run sweet deals. I've got one near me that always has some tanks on bare-bones clear out. I saw on that was huge for like $30.

Depends on where you live whether you need a heater ASAP. Where I'm at, even with the AC on full power 24-7 my room doesn't get below 78. I have a female betta right now in an unheated tank until I can afford a good heater. That might be something that you can save up to buy.

I've got white clouds. They are pretty cute. They don't school tightly, and they don't seem to zippy, but then they are also in with a betta which might affect how zippy they feel like being. They might be good though because they swim at all levels and spread to occupy tank space. If I remember right the hexs are tall but not wide, right? If so, might want to consider one highlight mid-level swimmer, or go with a school that are also mid level or all over the tank swimmers. A fish that just hangs at the top or the bottom might make your tank look kinda empty.

 

[nisi]

Thanks for the help. Cycling is going well in the 5gal. Ammonia goes from ~4ppm to 0 in less than 24hrs. Nitrites are still very high, too high to measure with my test kit, but they seem to be dropping now. Nitrates are ~10ppm and rising. Yay! So now I'm back with more questions.

1) I'm going to be out of town for a few days this week. What should I do with my cycling tank? I can dose it with ammonia right before I leave, but it'll be back to 0 within a day. Will 2 days without any ammonia starve the bio filter? Will it recover quickly? I don't want to have to start this cycle over. I'm not too keen on letting a shrimp rot in the tank, but would plant material work as a slow release ammonia source? Could I drop in a few leaves or flowers and let them rot for a few days?


2) I took a look at heaters for the 5gal. I could definitely get a small submersible heater in there, and they're not that expensive on-line. So, I could add a heater if it would let me keep the perfect fish. For this tank, I want something that's interesting for my daughter to watch, keeping in mind she'd sit for 30 minutes and watch our old goldfish scrounge for food, so it doesn't have to do stunts or anything lol. Just interesting normal fishy behavior is good. Would white clouds still be good? Or would a 5gal be ok for a betta, or too small? (You know, I used to think bettas were beautiful but really boring fish because whenever I saw them they'd just sit there and do nothing. After reading about all the fun bettas here, I realize that's probably because they're not so healthy kept in those tiny cups and bowls )


3) I think I found a good deal on a used 20gal setup - tank, hood, light, heater, filter, and air pump for $25. Assuming decent condition, does that sound good?


Thanks!

 

[newfound77951]

I have the Walmart version of that tank, and I have a small Visitherm heater in it (can't remember if it's 25 or 50 watts) and it works fine. One thing that would be good to do if you haven't already is to switch out the incandescent bulb for a 10 watt screw in compact fluorescent. Even if you don't want to grow live plants the fluorescent will not heat the water up so much like the incandescent will. As a bonus, with a 10watt CF you could grow some low light plants like Anubias or Crypts in there if you wanted. I had that tank on my desk at work with a school of Pristella tetras in it and they were quite happy.

 

[Purrbox]

Perhaps you could add a good sized pinch of fish food, or even better an algae wafer or other sinking food. These will take a while to decay and help feed your biofilter while you're away. You might have a minor stall in your cycle if it's not feed for a couple of days, but you shouldn't have to start completely from scratch.

 

[Alaris]

3) I think I found a good deal on a used 20gal setup - tank, hood, light, heater, filter, and air pump for $25. Assuming decent condition, does that sound good?

Yes I think that is a good deal. Considering the 5 gal you linked to was $50.

 

[new2betas]

PS - Look in Craigslist & other classified for a bigger used tank, you'd be surprised what you can find with $50 if you are patient ...... Too bad you are not in Edmonton, there is someone giving away a 30 gal setup complete for free on Craigslist right now!

I was one of those lucky people....I just got a 29g with filter, heater, hood, decorations for $50. A family was having a yard sale that was listed in craigslist in my area and I bought it from them before yard sale day. Boy, was I pleased!

 

[new2betas]

I think I found a good deal on a used 20gal setup - tank, hood, light, heater, filter, and air pump for $25. Assuming decent condition, does that sound good?

Sounds like a good deal to me!

 

[nisi]

One thing that would be good to do if you haven't already is to switch out the incandescent bulb for a 10 watt screw in compact fluorescent.

Thanks for the tip. I have noticed that bulb throws off a lot of heat but I didn't realize it was a standard socket and I could swap it with a CF any time. Duh! (where's the slapping my forehead icon?)

Perhaps you could add a good sized pinch of fish food, or even better an algae wafer or other sinking food. These will take a while to decay and help feed your biofilter while you're away.

Thanks, that's what I'll do. Hopefully it'll be like that watched pot that never boils, and when I ignore it for a few days it'll be all cycled


Thanks for the opinions on the used 20gal. Still trying to get together with the person selling it. Keep your fingers crossed for me!

Oops, forgot I had a question to ask ... How do you know when a test kit is expired? I have the API master kit, and nowhere on the box or bottles can I find an expiration date. It is at least 1.5yrs old, could even be 3 yrs, but the readings seem to be accurate as far as I can tell.

 

[jsoong]

The "official" line I read somewhere is 1 year after your opened it.

In practice, however, it depends on the test. Things like pH test are stable & should last forever. The tests that might be off would be reagents that can get oxidized, perhaps NO2/3. For me I keep the tests as long as it is accurate. Once you are done cycling, NH3/NO2 just need to be a yes/no type of test. The only level you may need would be NO3. <Really serious keeper would do 3 tests simultaneously, one with pure water to test for zero, one with a know conc. of NO3 & one your tank water. That would validate your test kit every time you use it. Personally, I test the NO3 kit maybe once or twice a year only. My kit died maybe 2-3 years after first use.>

 

[Alaris]

How do you know when a test kit is expired? I have the API master kit, and nowhere on the box or bottles can I find an expiration date. It is at least 1.5yrs old, could even be 3 yrs, but the readings seem to be accurate as far as I can tell.

Here's what harmy found on the AP test kits expiration dates.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f24/my-29g-planted-build-104788-3.html#post887365

Hello all. I have gone back & forth via email with API today, and they've given me some valuable information on the API Freshwater Master Test Kits. The original topic thread on concerns that I had about the test kit results are in a previous topic:

http://www.fishlore.com/Forum/1-gene...itrates.0.html

Basically, I was seeing nitrate test results yesterday that I found unbelievably low - zero - in an established tank.

I was very impressed with the quick responses I got from API, and my faith is restored in their test kits. I'll paste in the information from emails with API. Note - I was finally able to get a nitrate reading of 40 ppm after following their directions:

"Thank you very much for contacting us regarding our products. All of
your comments and questions are valuable. We use your feedback to
create the most effective line of aquarium and pond products available.

Your solutions are not expired. Each reagent bottle has a Lot # printed
on the bottle. The last four digits are the month and year of
manufacture. Example: Lot # 28A0102. This is a pH reagent manufactured
in January of 2002. Pond Care Wide Range pH, Ammonia, High Range pH,
Nitrate, Phosphate, Copper, Calcium and GH all last for three years.
Nitrite and KH will last for four years. Freshwater pH(low range) and
Pond Care Salt Level will last for five years. I would not trust these
kits after they have expired.

Liquid Nitrate Test Kits from any manufacturer can have a common problem
with their last test solution. For some companies, it is bottle number
3, but for us it is bottle number 2. One of the ingredients wants to
solidify out of liquid solution. If the test bottle sits for any period
of time, this can happen. If this does happen and the test is performed
without Bottle # 2 mixed properly, then you can get a falsely low
reading. I have never heard of falsely high readings with Nitrate Kits.
I would try tapping your Bottle # 2 a few times on a table or counter
top. This should loosen-up anything that has solidified. Then I would
shake this bottle for about 2-3 minutes, to really mix it up. Try the
test again and hopefully this will fix your problem. With regular weekly
usage, this bottle should only need to be shaken for 30-60 seconds.

Always check results at the recommended duration of time. Letting the
tubes sit longer can result in falsely high levels."

I then asked if heating the nitrate test solution #2 would help get the material back into solution and got this reply:

"I don't think heating is necessary, plus I don't want to degrade the
chemicals in any way. Tapping your Bottle # 2 a few times on a table or
counter top and then shaking should be adequate, but you will
immediately know with the next test."

I then asked if the proper way to match the colors was to place the test tube directly on the card, or back it up a bit, since the color can get a little darker when placed directly on the card. Since the gentleman was being so honest with me, in admitting that there could be a problem with their test solutions (or anyone elses) I thought it would be courteous to ask if I could share this information in the forums I read:

"You do touch the test tube to the color card.

It will be ok for you to share the Nitrtae Test Information. It is a
problem that every manufacturer has and we are interested in the kit
working properly for the consumer. "

As I said, the nitrate test finally gave me an expected reading, and my faith is now restored in the test kits. And I am really impressed with any manufacturer that replies quickly, tells you that there could be a problem with their product, and tells you how to fix it!

 

[SpeedEuphoria]

API kits have a code on the cardboard part of the packaging(the back side), it can be read as a date.

Like Mine says
"RM000047-00-0406" meaning it was made 04/06 or April of 2006

 

[saffikeagan]

Oh, thanks for passing that along Alaris. What great information.

 

[Alaris]

Oh, thanks for passing that along Alaris. What great information.

You're welcome. ^_^

 

[saffikeagan]

I just finished tapping and shaking

 

[nisi]

Thanks! I assumed the lot numbers on the bottles were date codes, but but without knowing how long they last that was no help, so thanks for filling the missing peice!

Cycling is still going. I think I stalled it by overdoing it with the ammonia once it got started so I did a massive water change to bring the nitrite levels down and it's back on track. Hopefully in a few days I'll be cycled.

Question about pH.... mine is really high. Right now it's off the chart on the high range pH test, so over 8.8. I suppose it could be temporarily high during cycling, but if memory serves, the last time I had a tank established, it was just as high. I know stable pH is more important than a specific number, but at some point it's got to start stressing the fish, right? Is a pH of 9 or more too high? (we have well water, pH is 7.2-7.4 out of the tap but it goes up after it sits out a day or two)


And..... I got the used 20 gal I have a million questions.

1. Anything special I should do in ceaning everything out (besides not using soaps, etc.)? Vinegar should be ok to use as long as I rinse well, yes? There are some hard water deposits I'd like to try that on. Should I do something to disinfect just to be on the safe side?

2. What the heck is the blue-green gooey greasy stuff in the lightbulb sockets? Some kind of sealant? Do I need to get more of whatever it is or will the lights be fine without it?

3. The filter that came with it is labeled "Whisper 5-15" and model T1. I'm guessing that means it's recommended for 5-15 gallons? If so, what new filter should I get? Are the Penguin bio-wheels any good? They're pretty inexpensive at Petsmart right now.

4. The heater is a Penn-Plax Therma Flow, wattage is not labeled that I can tell. Anything I should know about it?

(If I should start a new thread about the 20gal questions, let me know.)