Help!! Stalled cycle?

[ptynan]

Ok so my fishless cycle was going well........I was dosing about 3ppm ammonia regularly and it was dropping to zero within about 12-24 hours. Nitrites were off the chart. Then all of a sudden nitrites were zero but whereas before I was seeing about 10-20ppm of nitrates these were also zero. Now the ammonia seems to be taking a lot longer to drop than before and I have no nitrites or nitrates. The pH is around 7.6 - the only thing I can think of is that I put in an anti algae product which removes phosphate which I've heard the bacteria actually need? Any ideas please, it's been about 6 weeks now, impatience is setting in! maybe I could add phosphate by adding fish food?

ps) using API test kit

 

[threnjen]

This is odd. Did you do water changes that got rid of the nitrates? The rest can be figured out but nitrates going away is a conundrum.
Are you absolutely positively certain you are doing the nitrate test properly?
1. 10 drops bottle 1
2. shake vial a few seconds
3. Shake bottle 2 for min 30 seconds, shake the heck out of that sucker!!!
4. 10 drops bottle 2
5. shake whole vial for 1 minute

Usually if the cycle stalls at the nitrites phase, it's a phosphorus depletion or a pH crash. So I think you're on the right track with adding some fish food. Before you do that, go ahead and do a 50% water change to add in some phosphates from your source water too.

 

[ptynan]

Thank you! I think you're right, I think removing phosphates has upset those lil bacteria guys. No water changes done as yet. pretty sure I'm doing the test properly as previously was getting readings 10-20ppm. Also the ammonia now not really dropping is a bit weird as before was dropping to zero overnight pretty much and nitrites were really high (now zero).

I'll add some fish food, do a water change and hope for the best!

 

[threnjen]

Honestly though I am still kind of baffled. Where did the nitrates go?!
I feel like I must be missing an important detail.
Regardless, what we discussed will not hurt.

Oh I just reread that you put in an anti-algae product. What product is it? I misread before and thought you were just considering the product.

 

[ptynan]

I put in API algae prevention which removes phosphates. I have quite a lot of plants so maybe they yummed up the remaining nitrates, and the ammonia>nitrite bacteria went on strike cos of no phosphates? So confusing! Just doing 50% water change now and hoping for the best!

 

[flitabout]

That was going to be my next question did you have plants! FYI don't use anti algae chemicals in your tank especially one that removes phosphate in a planted tank. Contrary to what the bottle tells you if you don't have enough phosphate in your tank for the plants it stops the plants from using the rest of the nutrients in the tank and actually creating a hole for the algae to take over. Plus during a cycle it will cause a stall. As far as algae goes the better question is the cause. How long are you running your lights, What lights do you have? Do you dose excel (glut) or have co2? What ferts are you using? What are your parameters including your phosphate level?

 

[ptynan]

Ok I am potentially a complete pleb - I wasn't doing the nitrate test right - I was shaking the test tube for 30 secs rather than bottle number 2 :/ :/

I did a comparison against the tap water seeing as I just did a 50% water change and the tap water nitrates are quite high but the colour is definitely darker red from the tank water so there's some in there that weren't from the tap water especially as there's only 50% tap water in the tank!

The nitrites are still nil though although ammonia has dropped very slightly in the last few hours.

Really hope I wake up tomorrow and all is back on track

Thanks for your help people and sorry for what was on my part hopefully just being dumb! I'll post an update tomorrow for anyone that's interested.

 

[ptynan]

That was going to be my next question did you have plants! FYI don't use anti algae chemicals in your tank especially one that removes phosphate in a planted tank. Contrary to what the bottle tells you if you don't have enough phosphate in your tank for the plants it stops the plants from using the rest of the nutrients in the tank and actually creating a hole for the algae to take over. Plus during a cycle it will cause a stall. As far as algae goes the better question is the cause. How long are you running your lights, What lights do you have? Do you dose excel (glut) or have co2? What ferts are you using? What are your parameters including your phosphate level?

I think the algae product is definitely the culprit. I don't actually have that much algae, just some brown on the leaves (which I manually rub off gently) and the odd bit of green on the walls which I scrape off, I was just being over zealous

I tend to run the lights for a few hours during the day then they go off til the next day - the plants don't seem to mind this at all in fact it's a bit like day of the triffids in there! I dose API leaf zone and CO2 sporadically but the plants seem to do pretty well without it to be honest. I'm now thinking too many products spoil the broth as it were.

I don't have any way to test phosphate but hopefully the water change added some and I did put in a pinch of finely ground fish food.

Ammonia currently about 1.5ppm, nitrite nil, nitrates off the chart (but as in previous post the tap water nitrates were pretty high - however they're higher in the tank and seeing as that's only 50% tap water I'd suggest there's a fair bit of nitrate in the tank water too)

I'm hoping actions today will rekick things and I might see some positivity tomorrow

Thank you so much for all your advice what I love about this hobby is there is sooo much to learn and so much science (I have a biology degree so it kinda floats my boat )

 

[ptynan]

Only thing is, tap water nitrates are pretty darn high, so prob gonna have to get nitrasafe or something as doing water changes is not going to bring them down!

 

[threnjen]

You have a biology degree? Maybe you can make heads or tails of some of the scientific papers we're studying over in the "Off-Topic Aquaria" forum in the test data thread

Anyway! Actually you don't have to see nitrites. If you put in ammonia and it disappears within 24 hours and all you have is nitrates, you're cycled.

 

[flitabout]

What are your tap nitrates? EPA standards for city tap water supply is 10ppm or less, in the UK it's 5ppm. EPA in the US doesn't regulate well water. Also high nitrates in water is dangerous for you to drink over 10ppm. If you have well water you might want to look in to RO water or reverse osmosis water to get the crud out of your water. If you go that route you will need to remineralize the water you put in the tank.

 

[ptynan]

You have a biology degree? Maybe you can make heads or tails of some of the scientific papers we're studying over in the "Off-Topic Aquaria" forum in the test data thread

Anyway! Actually you don't have to see nitrites. If you put in ammonia and it disappears within 24 hours and all you have is nitrates, you're cycled.

I'll certainly have a look at the papers and see if I can help! My dissertation paper was on mosquito reproduction :/ I'll check ammonia tomorrow and if it's gone will assume all is well, only thing is high nitrates in tap water but can get products for that

 

[threnjen]

I was only half serious about that. But if you actually enjoy your degree you might find it interesting. To 99.9% it's pretty dry reading

I am also interested, like Flitabout, in your high tap nitrates! If you get city water you can actually complain about that.

 

[ptynan]

Well I'm in UK and they are off the chart but DEFRA says 50ppm is the legal limit?!?!?! :/ :/