hillbilly howdy

[LVstealth]

hi to all y'all (thats the plural of y'all)

i just found this amazing cache of knowledge and im so happy!

ive been reading a lot and thought i should join.

i am an accidental angelfish breeder... sort of

i have had community tanks for most of my life, and had lots of baby live bearers over the time.

i got a tall tank, a 45 gallon and finally got a few angelfish. i had mostly avoided them, my dad said they were not great in a community tank, and daddy knows things! i had 4, they were pretty small, maybe nickle size. they grew happily and never bothered a thing. several months later i noticed one being picked on, so i moved it to my 55 gal. in a little while another one was being picked on, so i moved it to the 55 gallon too. the one in the 45 gallon killed the remaining one there and now lives with swordfish and a few neons. i have no real idea if it is male or female. ill try to post a pic.

the two i moved to the 55 gal went on to become a pair!

here is a pic of the pair that is laying eggs (actually, laid them yesterday), black is the male.

now i am trying to read everything i can to see if i can end up with live fish!

my tank is at 80 degrees and has a filter i am about to change to a sponge filter when i get it monday

im also getting a brine shrimp hatching setup.

i had a plan... i was going to move the eggs this time. it is her 3rd time, and each time i had babies swimming for about 2 weeks, then they ate them and laid more eggs. so i was going to move the eggs, but she had them on the glass...

now i am just going to wing it. i hope i have what i need, and can google fast enough to save them. i hope to move them to the 10 gallon, either as wigglers or babies. the past 2 times they moved them to a leaf as wigglers.

there are 3 neons in the tank with the angelfish, but they dont seem to hurt things.

well, i know this is long, and not well written, but i am just so happy i found a great place for information.

im reading a lot and hope to have an intelligent question, but at this point im not sure i know enough to ask anything.


smiles,
Lisa


any suggestions, or things i need or just general input would be so very welcome! LV

 

[Andy Sager]

Hi and welcome:

You can try using a divider in the tank once the fry are free swimming to prevent the parents from eating them. At that stage, the parents are only there to protect the fry from other fish. Sadly, once Angels start eating their fry to spawn again, IME, they don't usually stop doing that so separating them is your best bet. Even better, if you can get them to spawn on something that is removable, they will be easier to move than waiting for the eggs to hatch.
This is a thread on here with input from hobbyist and professional Angelfish breeders ( as I am) where almost everything about the fish has been discussed. It's a long read because there is a lot of information in there. (https://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f82/wigglers-at-last-237956.html )

Happy reading.

 

[LVstealth]

Hi and welcome:

You can try using a divider in the tank once the fry are free swimming to prevent the parents from eating them. At that stage, the parents are only there to protect the fry from other fish. Sadly, once Angels start eating their fry to spawn again, IME, they don't usually stop doing that so separating them is your best bet. Even better, if you can get them to spawn on something that is removable, they will be easier to move than waiting for the eggs to hatch.
This is a thread on here with input from hobbyist and professional Angelfish breeders ( as I am) where almost everything about the fish has been discussed. It's a long read because there is a lot of information in there. (https://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f82/wigglers-at-last-237956.html )

Happy reading.

thanks a LOT for the thread, i am starting that now.

i tried to have them lay on something i could move, that blue thing is where she laid last time. but she chose to lay them over it, on the glass.

im also looking for a thread for a great breeding tank setup, if you know of such. im getting a 36 gallon in a few days, i think.

there is so much i need to know, but im on the angelfish timeline. i feel like im always behind the curve. this is her third time, and im failing.

thanks for the reply, it is pretty great to know there are folks out there who love the fishes! my family's eyes glaze over when i talk fish, unless you can fry them, they dont care.


L

 

[Andy Sager]

You actually don't need a tank that large for breeding Angels. A 20 gal High or a 29 gal tank will suffice. ( I've bred hundreds of pairs in 10 gallon tanks but the " Angelfish Police" get upset about that. ) You'll want a 10 gallon tank to hatch the eggs out in as well as a larger tank to grow out the fry. You don't want to hatch the eggs out in larger tanks because when you start feeding the fry, the less they have to hunt for the food, the better they will be and the more that should survive. All this info is in the thread.

A breeding tank is best set up with limited things in it. All I had in my breeder tanks was a tall piece of slate for them to spawn on, a sponge filter and a plant with fine leaves because a large leaf plant like a Sword is something the fish might spawn on while the small leaf plants are not. ( My plants were plastic so no need to add any chemicals in the tank that might get the fish off schedule.) My tanks were also bare bottom so the bottoms of the tanks could be kept clean as good water quality is essential for the fertilization of the eggs.
You can see some of my setups in my albums: https://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/members/41382-albums.html

 

[LVstealth]

ok! good to know. 20 or 29, i will look now!


i have a ten with heater, sponge filter, air stone and light hopefully ready for the wigglers or babies however that goes. and another 10 sitting empty. it is left from when i moved up in size.


if/when i need to move to a bigger tank, i have a 55 gallon with just a pleco and a big orange catfish looking thing i bought as an algae eater. if i need to, i can move them to the 45 gallon with the swordfish.



so far, this pair has done great with things until the 18th day, then they eat them and lay more eggs in a few days.


so i noticed they moved them to a leaf when they are wigglers and i can move that by just scooping up the whole little plant into a tea carafe i have. and move the whole thing to the 10 gallon.


if that doesnt work, i can move the babies at the 2 week point... so im trying to plan but they just arent cooperating.


im retired and spend a lot of time watching fish. im watching the 6 i bought, and i notice one is different. just a different shape at the head. i dont know if he is just how he is, or if he is discombobulated and i need to make other plans for him (i use the pronoun him lightly, he hasnt declared his pronoun to me yet; just had them 4 days) he is the smallest, but has some major 'tube.

im just excited! i have the time, and really enjoy it all. ill keep reading and maybe ill catch up to the fish soon.


L

 

[Andy Sager]

ok! good to know. 20 or 29, i will look now!


i have a ten with heater, sponge filter, air stone and light hopefully ready for the wigglers or babies however that goes. and another 10 sitting empty. it is left from when i moved up in size.


if/when i need to move to a bigger tank, i have a 55 gallon with just a pleco and a big orange catfish looking thing i bought as an algae eater. if i need to, i can move them to the 45 gallon with the swordfish.



so far, this pair has done great with things until the 18th day, then they eat them and lay more eggs in a few days.


so i noticed they moved them to a leaf when they are wigglers and i can move that by just scooping up the whole little plant into a tea carafe i have. and move the whole thing to the 10 gallon.


if that doesnt work, i can move the babies at the 2 week point... so im trying to plan but they just arent cooperating.


im retired and spend a lot of time watching fish. im watching the 6 i bought, and i notice one is different. just a different shape at the head. i dont know if he is just how he is, or if he is discombobulated and i need to make other plans for him (i use the pronoun him lightly, he hasnt declared his pronoun to me yet; just had them 4 days) he is the smallest, but has some major 'tube.

im just excited! i have the time, and really enjoy it all. ill keep reading and maybe ill catch up to the fish soon.


L

Here's the thing, it's #1 easier to move eggs than fry. #2 less stressful on the fry to be moved as eggs and #3 less stressful on the parents to move the eggs than fry.

As for sexing Angelfish, unfortunately, there has been so much breeding and inbreeding over the decades that there are now females with male traits and males with female traits. The only way to be 100% positive these days is to watch them spawning. The one laying the eggs is the female. The females tube will also look like the eraser end on a pencil while a male's tube will look the writing end of the pencil.

 

[Andy Sager]

When you get done with the Wigglers thread, I did another thread documenting the creation of my most recent fish hatchery where there is a lot of info about Angelfish as well. https://www.aquariumadvice.com/foru...-a-hatchery-and-everything-angels-324616.html

 

[LVstealth]

yeah... but she didnt go along. she laid above the thing i put there that she used before. she laid them on the aquarium glass. i cant get the eggs, so i need to get the wigglers, i think.


hopefully, she will move them to a leaf, and i can grab them leaf and all.



thanks! still reading the wiggler thread! ill know more when im done, hopefully.


is there a thread that will tell me what kind of Angelfish i have? i figure the black one is a black one, past that im lost.

 

[LVstealth]

When you get done with the Wigglers thread, I did another thread documenting the creation of my most recent fish hatchery where there is a lot of info about Angelfish as well. https://www.aquariumadvice.com/foru...-a-hatchery-and-everything-angels-324616.html

Thats the thread that got me here! it is awesome! i did wonder if you still do that, the thread ended, i was hoping for more!


really great, and very well explained. it was sad to hear when a fish died, but great to see all that went on


L

 

[Andy Sager]

Thats the thread that got me here! it is awesome! i did wonder if you still do that, the thread ended, i was hoping for more!


really great, and very well explained. it was sad to hear when a fish died, but great to see all that went on


L

Sadly, Hurricane Irma ended up closing down the majority of my customers so I closed the hatchery down. Now I'm doing more advising than fish keeping but still keeping fish as a hobby.

 

[Andy Sager]

yeah... but she didnt go along. she laid above the thing i put there that she used before. she laid them on the aquarium glass. i cant get the eggs, so i need to get the wigglers, i think.


hopefully, she will move them to a leaf, and i can grab them leaf and all.



thanks! still reading the wiggler thread! ill know more when im done, hopefully.


is there a thread that will tell me what kind of Angelfish i have? i figure the black one is a black one, past that im lost.

The 3 angels in post #1 are a black and the other 2 are Gold Marbles. The one in post #5 is a most likely a Blue marble or else a Marble under the influence of methyltestosterone.

You can find out all about Angelfish genetics here: TAS Library - Angelfish Genetics This is to the newest phenotype library: http://www.theangelfishsociety.org/phenotype_library_2007/NewIndex.html There are a lot of " mutt" Angelfish on the market so if you get ones that don't meet the standards of the Angelfish Society, they are just mutts ( mixed colors. )


As for your blue plate for spawning, place the item on something solid so that it reaches close to the top of the tank. Angels don't usually spawn low on the site so it won't matter if it's off the floor. ( I know, you'll read about one of my pairs spawning on the floor of the tank but that was a one time thing. )

 

[Autumnsky]

Happy you found us. Andy is the best and I'm pretty sure Angelfish is his middle name.

 

[Andy Sager]

Happy you found us. Andy is the best and I'm pretty sure Angelfish is his middle name.

 

[PBandJ]

I just think that is so cool. I haven't tried to hatch any babies YET, but hopefully someday.

 

[LVstealth]

i never thought about it till i saw the eggs! now i have multiple aquariums and angelfish groups working out getting pairs. i have 15 that survived to look like angelfish! sort of... mostly.



the local pet store will trade me some so that everyone is not related when they reach 6 weeks old.


there is one with a wonky anal fin, it is more like a swordfish tail. but otherwise its going ok.


im thinking a lot of people are like me, never thought about breeding till we saw the eggs!

 

[Andy Sager]

i never thought about it till i saw the eggs! now i have multiple aquariums and angelfish groups working out getting pairs. i have 15 that survived to look like angelfish! sort of... mostly.



the local pet store will trade me some so that everyone is not related when they reach 6 weeks old.


there is one with a wonky anal fin, it is more like a swordfish tail. but otherwise its going ok.


im thinking a lot of people are like me, never thought about breeding till we saw the eggs!

As I wrote in your other thread, the wonky fin is a genetic defect won't get better and I implore you to not offer that fish for sale or breed it. As the years have gone by, Angelfish have gone from fish that were extremely hardy to now fish that if you look at them wrong, die. That is the result of perpetual inbreeding and lack of breeding the good genetics in the fish. In a good responsible hatchery, that fish would have been culled. Sadly, I see fish like that in stores which just keeps the problem going forward.
If we as hobbyists want better quality fish, we have to accept that not every fish that is born or hatched, gets to live a full life. In Nature, these defective fish would be eaten so they would never survive in the wild. As a breeder offering fish for sale, that should be your standard as well. IMO