How many Bolivians

[meegosh]

Hey all,

Quick question for you cichlid keepers. I have wanted some quality german blue rams for quite some time (who doesn't?) and have had no luck. I do not want wild caught specimens and those are the only healthy ones I've seen on aquabid and the sorts.

My LFS got a shipment in a week or so ago of some nice sized Bolivian Rams. The owner, which is very knowledgeable (actually tells people to cycle first and doesn't stock ANY paper test kits), said he saw pictures of the group he ordered from and they all had really nice color. He thinks they are still adjusting to their new home but they have gained a lot of color just over the past week he has had them. He has been feeding them NLS products and Hikari frozen foods.

My question is, how many should I get? I know more females than males if possible. I want to split them between my 30g long and my 10g. What I was thinking is, if I get a pair out of the group I'll move them to my 10g. Is that too small for a pair? I have been looking for a 30g high to replace the 10g for quite some time. My current stock in both tanks can be found by clicking the My tank under my avatar.

Also I think I found a way to id the females and males from just looking (Sexing Bolivian Rams). I read up on them last night and am planning on stopping by again after work today.
Thanks for any help guys.

 

[bs6749]

My question is, how many should I get? I know more females than males if possible. I want to split them between my 30g long and my 10g. What I was thinking is, if I get a pair out of the group I'll move them to my 10g. Is that too small for a pair? I have been looking for a 30g high to replace the 10g for quite some time. My current stock in both tanks can be found by clicking the My tank under my avatar.

Also I think I found a way to id the females and males from just looking (Sexing Bolivian Rams). I read up on them last night and am planning on stopping by again after work today.
Thanks for any help guys.

Nope, not true on the ratio. Keep them in multiples of sexed pairs otherwise you will have lone fish that are unpaired and they will be harassed to the point of death by the formed pairs. Bolivians once belonged to the genus Apistogramma, along with the blue ram, but both were removed and reclassified as Microgeophagus. This was done because of their spawning habits, which include laying on flat surfaces and pit digging, whereas apistos tend to lay on roofs of cave interiors. Generally it's the female apistos that rear the fry and both species of Microgeophagus show dual parenting.

You should only have 2 sexed pairs in a 30L. You can move them over to a barebottom (with pieces od slate or clay pot) 10g to spawn and you may need to move one or both of the parents back to the 30L if they are eating the eggs.

Since the rams are larger it should be much easier to sex them but there is also a good chance that you can pick out a pair of them if you watch them closely. I'd wager that I could pick out a pair of them in 10 seconds or less given that they aren't all hungry and come rushing to the top of the tank. Look for two fish that are near each other and are chasing off all of the others. If they don't go after each other then that should be a pair. Also look for one fish defending a spot and then 2 other fish swimming into that spot, with one of those two chasing off the other one it swam in with. In this case it's most likely a male defending a spot and two females swimming in to pair. The one female will chase off the other female and attempt to pair with the male. Most likely he won't chase off the females that come into his territory. In my experience with blue rams, the males only chase the males and the females only chase the females. That is unless there are eggs involved and then whoever is on perimiter duty will chase off anything including a 4" BN pleco.

As for sexing them the best way IMO is to look at the tail fin. Males almost always have a "lyre tail" with streamers on the tips of the top and bottom portion of that fin. But like I said, I'd look for a pair of them rather than trying to make your own pairs. Oftentimes when they are shipped they will spawn within 3-5 days so there should be some formed pairs in the tank if they are of age.

 

[meegosh]

Thanks for the info, I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I did notice there was a male (I think) guarding the entrance to the only cave in the tank. He would chase off just about everything that came close. I'm hoping there are some females in the tank. I'll have to take a closer look today. Maybe the owner has noticed any pairs forming. I'm fairly certain there are two males, one guarding the cave entrance and another one the other side behind some plants which does the same thing, chases everyone away.

Is the article I linked to fairly accurate as far as the breeding tube leading upwards towards the anal fin on a female? That seems like an easy way to get a head count of females and males in the tank. I'll try to look at their tails a little more closely also.

Thanks again for the reply!

 

[bs6749]

Breeding tubes on males are pointed and generally they don't extend very far out. Usually the only time you will see them is just before they spawn and shortly afterwards. Females have short and rounded breeding tubes which can usually be seen even if only a small amount. More of her breeding tube will be visible as she becomes increasing filled with eggs. That in turn might push her ovipositor upwards (more like horizontally), but for the most part I'd say that both the breeding tubes of males and females are directed downwards.