Impatient with startup high ammonia no sign of a cycle

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neonpedro

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
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I didn't follow procedure. I wasn't patient and for that I am in this mess. I'm not looking for I told you so's or that'll teach ya I just want help. I have 46litre fluval edge I have 19 neons 2 bronze corys 1 small rubber nose plec 2 amato shrimps and 2 algae eaters. My ammonia levels seem to be the only thing going up and no sign of anything else happening. Have been doing water changes every few days for ammonia control around 20%. Please advise ImageUploadedByAquarium Advice1399409868.082813.jpg
 
It's been 4 weeks since I started it but I put fish in it around 3 weeks ago. Started with the neons originally were 24 of the wee guys. Added some stress zyme bacteria in a bottle. Saw high ammonia and tried to counter it with corys and algae eaters probably made it worse tho
 
Which filter are you using

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The one that's supplied with the edge. It has foam bio media and carbon.
 
When your doing water change do you clean gravel??

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Your tank is also probably overstocked as well, which is going to make managing the water in the tank a very high priority. you'll need to do weekly water changes, if not twice weekly, with that many fish in a small tank. The Edge 46L is not in Aqadvisor, but the 23L tank is...so I ran it with just 12 neons and the tank was already overstocked with no other fish and recommended 50% weekly water changes. Ideally you need a bigger tank.

So, to handle what you have now, I'd up the water changes to at least 50% from 20%. You may need to do a couple a day initially. I'd also be treating the water and the tank with some Seachem Prime as it will help detox the ammonia and nitrite to some degree. Outside of that, it's patience and work to get through this with what you have. You'll likely loose a few more fish along way too I suspect.
 
I have recently learned that doing big water changes (50/60%) isn't a bad thing as long as the water is treated as the bacteria is mostly on the decor plants sand and filter so I will be persevering with that. I use the siphon to clean the **** off the sand so it's killing 2 birds with the one stone.
 
That's the key, treat the water. Alternatively you could also dose the tank, but dose the tank for the full tank volume, then you can add your water. Just try to temperature match it.
 
Excuse my ignorance but what do you mean dose the tank?
 
The stock is decreasing... Bubba Gump my Amato shrimp didn't make it through these tough times. I feel like a murderer. :)
 
Keep at the water changes. That's the best thing you can do right now. It's not surprising that the shrimp died but they are very sensitive to ammonia. But hang in there, everyone makes mistakes and there is a lot of bad advice out there. You are on the right track here though!
 
Most of us have made plenty of mistakes, and some of us (like me) still are. Patience was the hardest, but arguably most important, thing that I had to learn.

As you already figured out, you're in the throws of a Fish-In cycle... and there seems to be something slowing it down. A low pH can cause the cycling process to stall out. Have you checked the pH yet?

Ive done a few Fish-In cycles and here is what Ive learned:

-Test often. There can be large and sudden swings in your parameters. You might have .5ppm ammonia in the morning, but by early evening its jumped up to 2ppm. You'll need to know how your parameters are doing so that you can take the proper steps to correct any problems that pop up.

-Large and frequent water changes. I would sometimes be doing two 50% water changes a day during Fish-In cycling. One in the morning before going to work and then another when I got back home. Smaller water changes (10-20%) aren't very effective. If you have 1ppm Nitrite and you change out 20% of the water, then you're now at .8ppm... which is still too much. On the other side of that coin, don't go TOO big. You want a small amount of ammonia available to feed the bacteria you're trying to cultivate. I tried to keep mine around .25ppm to .5ppm.

-Be careful about overfeeding. I know its fun to watch your fish go nuts at feeding time, but more food means more waste... whether its in the form of poop or uneaten food... and more waste means spikes in ammonia. The instructions on your fish food container probably tell you to feed your fish 2-3 times a day. Until your tank is cycled, I would recommend reducing that to 1-2 times a day. Don't worry about your fish starving. They can actually go many days without food and still be OK.

Hope this is of some help. Good luck.
 
Fish in cycling is tough and takes a long time, you need to do tons of huge water changes, sometimes. 2-3 times a day. Once you get passed the ammonia phase, nitrites are even worse as they strike hard and fast.

If you can get some Seachem Stability. It will help A TON!!

Your probably looking at a 8-12 week process before it's safe. Feed very little until it's done cycling, and then keep a close close eye on Nitrates as they will rise fast with that much stock.
 
Don't do as suggested and treat the tank with conditioner and run unconditioned water from the tap directly into the tank. This is playing a risky game of roulette and one time you will lose.

Your fish will be exposed to chlorine which is highly toxic. You can't possibly think that by dosing the tank you are instantly treating water as it enters the tank.

Your tank is also very overstocked which is going to make your cycle very difficult on you with such a small tank. I would suggest testing the water daily and ensuring not to let ammonia Or nitrites reach 1pmm, do frequent large wcs to keep it at around .25ppm
 
Water conditioners do their work almost instantly. Any exposure to chlorinated water would be minimal. Plus the new water would be diluted by the existing water, further reducing the effects of the chlorine and other toxins in tap water. Additionally, coming in contact with chlorinated tap water for a few minutes isn't enough to have long term consequences. The bigger threat is to the BB inside the filters, which is one of the reasons you shut them off during water changes.
Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of hobbyists around the globe perform their water changes this way without incident.
 
A lot of us learn the hard way ...

Somewhere online (and in my thread on fishless cycling a 29 gallon) is a chart that shows the toxicity of ammonia at certain temps and pH levels. Lower temp and pH is less toxic. However, the higher temp and pH makes for a faster growth of beneficial bacteria.

Keep at the water changes, and learn as much as you can about your water. KH and GH and pH and all of that are important.
 
The water that you are putting into your tank, from the tap, needs to be as close to the temperature as the existing tank water...get it as close as you can
 
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