L144 Pleco females sick or fighting body patch and bloody fin?

[DanielK]

Hi there guys, I guess I'll have to skip the introductions post as I have been long lurker of these forums and signed up this time as I need some help with sick fish so this is my first official post.

1)Problem: L144 Pleco females I noticed today one female looking rough and thought it was only here that's got sick and had some bloody fin but here is picture:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/91298790@N07/15074908434/in/photostream/
and video: https://www.flickr.com/photos/91298790@N07/15696417042/in/photostream/

Later this evening I noticed another female has the same kind of patch on body as well almost in the same spot.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/91298790@N07/15511985238/

Is it the same disease ? or from fighting (which I never see but could be done when lights are out)
Both swim and act pretty normal and are eating.

2) ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 40 to 80(I know high, had 3 batches of fry and new tank not ready that's why this is getting out of hands), temp 26.5C, pH 7.6)? Please give exact values.

3) Tank is 46Gal set up for 6 months

4) Eheim 2215 and 2217 filtration (one will be moved to new tank very soon)

5) All adults: 8 Neon tetras, 4 Julii Cory, 4 fancy guppies, 3 adult female L144 and 1 adult male, 1 smaller male 2.5".
25 L144 fry 1", 20 x 0.5"

6) 30% water changes every two/three days now as Nitrates went up about 4 weeks ago with arriving fry and extra food and waste.

7) Had these fish for over 2 months

8) Nothing new added to the tank.

9) No change in diet, feeding NLS H2O stable waffers and AlgaeMAX, Algae Waffers, Repashy Soilent green mainly, blench zucchini twice a week.

I have 40Gal that will be ready any day to move some fish it's not cycled but I'll be moving one of the Eheims there so hopefully things will take load off the 46Gal main tank and at least move the pleco fry there.

Thank you for your input,
Daniel

 

[DanielK]

I have started treating wiht paraguard it has been 4 days and the fish still has that white fleshy patch, red fin has improved so hopefully the med is helping slowly, at least it's not getting worst.

Any other medication that is more aggressive but ok with pleco and pleco fry ?
Thank you.

 

[Delapool]

Hi, welcome to AA.

Are you in the US or elsewhere as that usually increases/limits med choice.

Middle of the night here and I need to check that out on large screen. Could it be from fighting?

Edit - otherwise I'd suspect bacterial infection. Are you half dosing the paraguard?

 

[DanielK]

Full dose of paraguard, but I remembered yesterday that I had carbon in my eheim in (about 5 weeks old pad so I removed it as it was probably making meds less potent).
Also updated more info on my location but I'm in Canada.

 

[Delapool]

I had a look and would of said either bacterial or fungal - leaning towards fungal except for the red fin. The paraguard is probably helping with the malachite green and aldehyde ok for low level infections. Methylene blue for fungal or acriflavine for bacterial would be also worth looking at (generally in a multi-cure here). Basically I'd look in the lfs for a bacterial/fungal med.

It doesn't look too bad so water changes and these chemical treatment multi-cures should be ok for fry, especially as they seem to be handling the MG ok.

If one gets worse I'd QT for a stronger dose.

 

[DanielK]

Thank you for checking it out, the bloody fin has cleared up now it's only the white spots that are still there (on both fins close to the body as well as on the top part) but they they don't look worst so I"m happy with that.

I have finished bottle of paraguard last night so I will give them rest for few days and get more aggressive with treatment.

I can get here KanaPlex and NeoPlex by Seachem both showing to work on bacterial and fungal infections, I'll have to research if they are ok with plecos and pleco fry

 

[Delapool]

This website may help. I've found it pretty useful in the past.

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html

 

[DanielK]

Another update so maybe my case will save someone time of what was tried if they have something similar looking.
It has been almost two weeks and my fish is still holding on.

Looks not too good I think I wasted my time with Paraguard as it didn't seem to do anything and the condition progressed to worst so I decided to try stronger meds and move to separate tank.

Updated pic if anyone can have more advice as what it can be ?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/91298790@N07/15596834449/

2 days ago she was moved into 10gal with some shrimps near perfect water and live plants I have been dosing Kanaplex antibiotic. Because she's there for only 2 days the condition didn't seem to change for better or worst.

At this point in new tank I don't think shes eating anything what I gave her but is still pretty strong.

 

[Delapool]

How is it going? Are you seeing any improvement? You should be able to combine kanaplex with neoplex if the kanoplex isn't working.

 

[DanielK]

Hi,
There was no improvement with kanaplex and fish died yesterday.

I also lost a two month fry in main tank, one where the large female was in, day after water change I did. I actually lost 2 other plecos right after water changes last month as I was using tap water + prime. Now I let it sit also for about 24 hrs.

Not sure if it's something I'm doing with water but the young one had really red bloody marks on his bottom side. Attaching picture, I check fish daily so didn't see anything going on with them.

My 40gal tank is running now so slowly I'll be moving all my l144 plecos there and will keep them in separate tank as my problems started when Nitrates became high, and tank overcrowded with fry.

Bottom line is that whatever infection it is paraguard didn't seemed to work and kanaplex as well didn't improve the condition of the fish that died.

 

[Delapool]

That is sad news. It does sound like a bacterial infection and they can be pretty tough to beat.

I've found reducing the temperature to 25C and large water changes to be useful (plus treatments). Unfortunately the bacteria are always in the water and it is just something that triggers it rather than us doing something really wrong usually.

Prime is pretty good. I use that and don't age water. I don't get any large ph swings though. Are you temp matching the water?

 

[DanielK]

I agree that it has to be some tough bacteria that's why it slowly ate at the fish, as much as I know about viruses probably more fish would be sick by now or this one wouldn't last that long but who knows.

After doing more research the diseases I found that it could have been one of this: Hemorrhagic Septicemia or Septicemia, Skin Flukes , or Aeromonas bacteria.

If my next fish will show symptoms of this I will treat it with mixture of Kanaplex and API furan 2 or some other mix as from what I saw this thing is not easy to battle and I didn't have API at home. I was thinking to combine Kanaplex and Neoplex but quickly red on Seachem forums that they didn't recommend this but now I regret it and should have tried it.

Regarding water changes I don't heat up water as it's room temp about 25C my tank is at about 26C to 26.5C so don't think that 10Gal water mix would affect them.

Cheers and thanks for replies and ideas.

 

[MICEY]

sorry about your fish
I have had great luck with binox ,it killed some really nasty fugal infections with some bacteria added in

 

[DanielK]

Another update.
So beside that I don't wish this kind of disease upon my enemy fish , it has been almost 2 weeks since my last post and still no cure.
I have lost total of 3 adult pleco and about 10 juvies.

I have moved all pleco from my 46gal to newly setup 40 gal with cycled canister filter, and even that some seemed fine later they started showing similar symptoms as the first female that died beginning of the month. ( I want to point out that water parameters staying good ammonia, nitrite both 0 and nitrate at 20.)

I did very aggressive treatment of seachem kanaplex with api furan 2 which didn't improve the fish in past 7 days.
1 fish developed fungus where the flesh wound was and couple died with something similar to fin rot.
Bottom line combination of kanaplex and furan 2 wasn't successful as their condition seemed to worsen during the treatment.

Last treatment that I'm doing now after couple 25% partial water changes is neoplex + paraguard, and made some repashy with mixed kanaplex antibiotic in it.

I figured that even though it's a lot of meds the fish will die if I just let them be, and I still have an adult female and about 8 juvies worth saving.

I also want to add that for now pleco was totally ok with mixed treatment of furan 2 and kanaplex at suggested dosage.

I want to point out that none of the other species fish got sick in the original 46gal tank, none of the guppies, neon tetras or cory, only pleco.

Will do another update in a week.

 

[Delapool]

Sad news. Sounds long battle?

How's the tank temperature? Are you adding any salt?

 

[DanielK]

No salt, won't bother at this point I counted 5 fish in total left.
I should have tried the salt as soon as I have moved them into that 40G but figured it's something naughty so I'll go with antibiotics and big guns.

Hopefully no one on forums get this crap, but if they do and it will look similar at least they know what I have tried

 

[Delapool]

No salt, won't bother at this point I counted 5 fish in total left.

I should have tried the salt as soon as I have moved them into that 40G but figured it's something naughty so I'll go with antibiotics and big guns.



Hopefully no one on forums get this crap, but if they do and it will look similar at least they know what I have tried

Yeah, I've always thought of salt as a tonic with the meds doing the heavy work. Could be worth a try though. I just added it as well as meds with bn catfish. First night - 1 teaspoon per 5 gal, second night - lift to 1 tablespoon per 5 gal, third night to 2 tablespoons per 5 gal. Dosed in QT with no plants. No problems at all for fish.

 

[CoryFan]

Oh, I am so sorry for your losses and how terrible this looks! I just got my first l-144s and will remember this thread if I ever see this.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[DanielK]

Last update.

The remaining young l144 fish died.
They were showing only slight signs of the disease but not much so maybe all the drugs that they were treated with had the effect.

Bottom line if I ever encounter this I would try maybe API Triple Sulfa and Tc Tetracycline included with the salt.

Seachem kanaplex, neoplex, paraguard were not affective
API Furan 2 not effective as well (was given together with kanaplex)

I have about 15 l144 left from the last spawn of the adults I lost and their batch seems healthy unfortunately all my breeding adults and 2 other spawns for 2-3 month old were wiped total I think it was about 20-25 fish that this killed.

Peace out

 

[Delapool]

That is very sad news. Appreciate the update. I can't believe it, what an aggressive infection. Did they get cloudy eyes at all? That may indicate it was a gram positive bacterial infection.