Lionhead Oranda With Bloody Bubble Eye

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Tank120

Aquarium Advice Freak
Joined
Nov 6, 2013
Messages
212
Location
Indiana
Hi,
I have a 120 gallon tank with a weird setup. It was originally set up as a planted tank. I was using liquid Co2 and I didn't want to buy an injector. Either way it had become too expensive. Since this was set up to be a planted tank, it has a soil substrate with pebbles on top ( I read a book about this setup ) : ) I have a Fluval FX 5 ( rated for up to 400 gallons. It has three stages......top- charcoal covered with coarse polishing pad, 2cnd-biomedia, 3rd-biomedia covered with fine polishing pad. Biomedia, if it needs cleaned, tank water is used. With tank setup and biomedia, I should have good bacteria out the whazoo.

T-8 lighting system, 4 bulbs.

Tank covered with two sections of egg crate to keep cats from fishing ( believe it or not they once flipped a fish out onto the floor ).

Large ship decoration - 2 halves.

Natural rocks-boiled before they were put in.

Natural drift wood, also boiled before it was put in.

I believe, Anubius, attached to wood.

Several clumps of Java Fern.
Tried Java moss and they ate it all even though it was mounted on metal mesh and I thought well hidden. Did have duckweed on top but it took over and light couldn't get through.

1 plecostamous
1 comet
1 6 1/2" orange oranda
2 lionhead orandas
1 5" gold and white oranda
7 Cory cats
So tank is definitely not overloaded.

Tank has been set up like this for three years.

Cobalt premium goldfish food with probiotics and Omega One medium goldfish pellets for the two large ones. They do eat both. Shelled peas twice a week-haven't found any other things they will eat.

PH usually runs 8.0 because our water naturally has high Ph and with doing 50% water changes it impossible to keep it down. We do have a water softener but I use the unsoftened water from the garage when I do water changes. Water change every two weeks and I do use Tetra additive to neutralize chlorine and help slime coat.

Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - normally even after a water change stays low acceptable range.
Hardness and alkalinity always high. Again, because of water source.

Lionhead was already missing one eye. I believe the plecostamous did it. No other explanation and it is quite large.

Last week I noticed that he had this bloody bubble on his good eye. He definitely could not see. I know that they sense the food through smell or taste. Can,t rember which? He definetly was having trouble finding pellets and maneuvering. He has never grown as fast as the other one.

Then, all of a sudden the bubble burst and I think he can see some now. He seems to be doing better. I would like to know what caused this, in case it happens again. If there is some way to prevent this I would love to know.

Also, my large orange or and a is growing out a few scales that look white in patches on one side and the other side has a whole line of scales missing so the line looks white. I don't see any signs of disease? I would think plecostamous again, but I would imagine scales missing in this manner would be round patches? Maybe rubbing against something? Although, I can not imagine what in the tank would leave a vertical line? This particular fish is my favorite and I already almost lost him a few months ago when he swallowed a rock. Had to use tweezers to try to get it out. Instead it ended up going into his tummy and he was able to work it out and spit it up. So, any help here, ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated! I would die if I lost either fish. I cried when Randy swallower the rock.

Thank you so much!
 
Welcome to AA!!!

Thank you for all the info! Can you please provide us with specific numbers for ammonia and nitrate and what you are using to test with (liquid or strips)? Ph, kh, and gh are not an issue here as goldies do better in hard, high ph water.

Can you possibly post pics of what you are seeing on your two fish in question? This will help us better understand what is going on. If you need help posting pics, just ask! :)
 
I use test strips because it makes it so simple to test the tank two or three times a week. I will try to get pictures of Randy and Pong tomorrow.

The blood bubble burst on Pongs eye. He seems to have some sight in it. Most of the debris from the bubble is gone now except for some blood around the edges of the eye. I do not understand what caused this?

Looked at Randy again and there are some scales missing on the other side too. If it is that dang plecostamous, I am going to trade him for another fish. However, there is no way that he could have caused the vertical line.

Please excuse the algae. It is no longer there. My scraper was broken so I had to use a credit card to get it off. I swear that plecostamous doesn't do his job. I think he is getting too many algae wafers.

ForumRunner_20131107_002425.jpg
 
I didn't realize you couldn't play a video on the site. The picture is not good.

Thanks for the welcome.
 
I honestly can not see anything clearly in your pic. Can you possibly post your exact numbers for ammonia and nitrate?

Could the pleco be a culprit here? Definitely a real possibility. A blood blister on an eye indicates that there was traumatic injury to that eye. Whether is was the result of the pleco going for the other tasty eye or due to injury from décor as this fish is now very sight impaired, I honestly do not know. Plecos (especially as they age) are reknowned for finding sleeping fancies a tasty snack. Your visually impaired fancy is an easy target. Rehoming the pleco is something to give serious consideration. Removing any décor that may be sharp, pointed, jagged or rough should also be considered to make the environment safer and more friendly for a visually impaired fish.

In respect to the other fish with the missing scales, a pic of the marks will help! :)
 
Pictures of the fish that I am concerned about

Here are both sides of Randy, also of Pong and the tank. I was told that Pong was a Lionhead when I bought him? No dorsal fin but certainly very little wen. When we brought home Pong and his sister, they were the same size, but now Ping is much bigger?

The decorations are large, so I am not certain how he could be loosing scales by rubbing them while swimming. He is too big to fit in the ship halves.

Excuse the algae on the back of the tank. The tank is deep and wide so I can't reach very far.

Do you think I should get rid of the pleaco? He is quite large.
 

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Oh, to answer your questions. I use test strips because it makes it so easy to test two or three times a week so I can't give exact numbers. I am out of ammonia test strips, will pick some up, but it has never been a problem before.
 
Picture of the tank

As you can see, the decorations are large and the corners are rounded.
 

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Oh, I am sorry. I missed some of the post and didn't see where you said the pleaco could be a problem. He is quite large. Probably 6 to 6 1/2"
 
Here are both sides of Randy, also of Pong and the tank. I was told that Pong was a Lionhead when I bought him? No dorsal fin but certainly very little wen. When we brought home Pong and his sister, they were the same size, but now Ping is much bigger?

The decorations are large, so I am not certain how he could be loosing scales by rubbing them while swimming. He is too big to fit in the ship halves.

Excuse the algae on the back of the tank. The tank is deep and wide so I can't reach very far.

Do you think I should get rid of the pleaco? He is quite large.

Thank you for the pics! Ok, first pic- he has some rather distinct marks/missing scales on his side and near his anal fins. Bit concerning. Have you ever noticed this fish being nudged or chased by anyone else? The next pic actually shows where scales were lost but have now grown back though they are now translucent in color so they appear as if they are still missing. Is this the only fish with missing scales?

Given the pleco's history, my suggestion is to rehome before there is another eye mishap. If you continue to see missing scales, I would spend some time watching everyone. My other suspicion is there is some breeding behavior going on. Please ask if you have questions! :)
 
I tried calling the LFS all day and all I got was the answering machine. I had planned to take him with us to town and drop him off before my doctor's appointment. Since they wouldn't answer their phone so that I could confirm they were open, I was afraid to take him on a 45 minute drive and leave him in the car.

We stopped in after my appointment. They were open after all. ANSWER YOUR PHONE!! They will take him back but will only give me $5.00 for him. The girl said that they had a surplus after people close their ponds and bring them in. Funny, cause I only saw a couple of 3 and 4 footers? Oh well. We are going to try to take him back tomorrow.

Of course I couldn't leave the LFS without a couple of fish. I got a small red cap oranda, a calico lionhead and 6 more Cory cats.

No, there isn't any aggressiveness in the tank. Randy is the largest fish in the tank and Randy is the biggest fish in the tank. The plecostamous is the biggest problem.

I will watch for breeding behavior. Haven't seen anything at this point. Although he and Betty hang around a lot together but he doesn't chase her around like he would like to mate.

Will the translucent scales ever regain their orange color? He was such a beautiful fish until a few weeks ago.
 
I found this article and found it very interesting. If I understand it correctly, there are many types of scales and if my red oranda grew out translucent scales, he was most likely going to fade. Can you look at the pictures and tell me what type of scales you think he has; metalic, matte or nacreous?

The article I found is here:
http://www.raingarden.us/color.htm
 
That's a great article! I remember reading it before and I have actually purchased fish in the past from the owner of Raingarden (Steve). Regardless of scale type, my experience has been with fish with damaged scales typically regrow translucent and, yes, the fish's color will fade with time. I have only had a single fish with severe damage that actually regrew scales in her original color (black) but she was an exception as black is a very unstable color in goldfish. Color in general is very unstable in goldfish and your new red cap and calico will likely undergo color morphing as well.

Hope you have your new charges in quarantine! :)
 
Jlk, please don't kick my butt. I broke my quarantine tank. My daughter was supposed to bring me one of my other tanks that I have stored in her barn. Unfortunately, she lives an hour away and we don't get to see her much. She is working a lot and getting her Masters on top of that.

All of my other fish were exposed to ich (never got it) and just lost 1 redcap. Just remind me in advance, how much non-iodized salt per gallon and how high the temp needs to go? I did loose one other calico, Stubby, because he swallowed a rock. He did it overnight and it was too late to help once I found him. Rocks are just the right size when they are small or medium, but when they get large they seem to be a problem. They grow sooo fast! After a certain size, the size of the rocks is no longer a problem again.
 
Jlk, please don't kick my butt. I broke my quarantine tank. My daughter was supposed to bring me one of my other tanks that I have stored in her barn. Unfortunately, she lives an hour away and we don't get to see her much. She is working a lot and getting her Masters on top of that.

All of my other fish were exposed to ich (never got it) and just lost 1 redcap. Just remind me in advance, how much non-iodized salt per gallon and how high the temp needs to go? I did loose one other calico, Stubby, because he swallowed a rock. He did it overnight and it was too late to help once I found him. Rocks are just the right size when they are small or medium, but when they get large they seem to be a problem. They grow sooo fast! After a certain size, the size of the rocks is no longer a problem again.

I apologize for the delay in getting back to you (away for the weekend). Sorry to hear about your goldies! Salt levels for ich are .3% or 11.4grams per gallon. Qt tanks do not need to be expensive or complicated- a simple 20g Rubbermaid/plastic storage bin with some type of filtration works just fine. You can pick up one of these at any discount store (such as walmart) for under $10. Pull some media from your main tank filter and stick it in the qt filter.

After having to remove gravel with forceps, I got rid of it all except for some very large rocks in my pond. Its just not worth the risk and the amount of dirt and debris gravel 'hides' is pretty scary. Everything I have now is either pfs or bare bottom. Maintenance is a breeze. :)
 
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