Menagerie---Not a good development, Now what do I do?

[Cherry Barb]

Okay, from my previous thread, now I have one cory that is missing her dorsal fin and has an open lesion where it was. Both SAE's are scratching like crazy along with 1 Skunk and 1 other cory. Also, several of my fish look like their gills are red and one rosy barb looks "swollen" sort of. Not the pregnant look, very odd.

I have raised the temp and added salt like you told me Menagerie. Help! I am worried that I really got a parasite when i planted the tank. What do I do? I am panicking! I'm trying not to but I can't help it. Most of these guys are from the original setup of this tank. It will break my heart if I lose them. They were my first fishy babies. I'll keep a close lookout for the good advice I know you guys have.

Rose

 

[Menagerie]

8O
Okay, that sounds like parasites. Go back and look at the links I gave you in the other thread.
Also, recheck your water parameters. Double check that nitrites and ammonia are undetectable. In addition, increase water surface agitation by lowering the water level of the tank (it will be noisy) by a few inches.

I read through those links (I hope it's not this) and found:

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Gill Flukes (Dactylogyrus, Cichlidogyrus, Tetraonchus)
S: Tiny worm-like flukes infest the gill membranes causing redness and slimy gills, panting at the surface, rapid breathing, and emaciation.
A: Flukes lay eggs that are resistant to medication. Treat the tank with Droncit (Praziquantel) at 2 ppm (2 Mg/L) or a malachite green-formalin combination until all eggs and flukes are gone. Flukes can be eliminated from fish (but not the tank), by short formalin, salt (3 %), or Ammonium Hydroxide baths.

The other thing(s) it may be are the first and third from here.


Is the cory hemorraging? Do any fish have signs of blood under their skin?

 

[Menagerie]

If there is hemorrhaging under the skin, immediately begin treatment with a kanamycin based med such as Kanacyn. This can be put in food and if the fish are still eating, this is the best route to take.

I am so sorry I didn't check in earlier--I have a presentation I have to give tomorrow morning. Usually I have AA on all the time! I will check in first thing in the morning.

 

[Cherry Barb]

Thanks Menagerie. Yeah, its bad. This morning it looks like part of her back is gone. I am going to have to remove her regardless because the others are attacking her. I think I'll probably lose her today.

I don't see signs of hemorraghing in any others. I also can't tell if the gills are slimy, but several do appear red. Even my orange serpae's have red gills now if that tells you how quick this happened. I will check my parameters and then begin treatment. Question, I use Amquel as my dechlor. Will that disguise the ammonia? I didn't think it would because I use a master test, but now....I'm not sure of anything.

Also, I was considering removing plants and changing substrate to remove any eggs and then leaving light off until I am sure they recover. Is this advisable? I'll keep my eyes open. And thanks Menagerie. I appreciate your help. Good luck with your presentation.

Rose

 

[Cherry Barb]

OKay, now I'm really freaking out. My Ites are through the roof. They were fine a couple of days ago. PH still stable and Ammonia 0. What is going on with my tank!?!?! I used my last Ates strip a few days ago I'll have to get more today. (That's the only strip I use btw, the other tests are from the Master Kit.)

My Ites and Ates have never been higher than an occasional spike to .25 ppm. Usually it might spike after I feed them their brine shrimp treats and then goes back to normal within a couple of days or with a water change.

Could the plants be causing any of this? The fish have eaten or destroyed one entire half of the tank I recently planted. Can this be a factor? I am so panicked it isn't even funny. This has never happened before. So, with the water params do we still think this is flukes or ???? 8O

I'll keep checking for your replies.

Thanks,
Rose

 

[Menagerie]

The plants should be helping, not hurting. Pull all the plants out and put them in a bucket with water for now. Do a 50% water change and vacuum the gravel well.

If you have a QT tank, depending on the size, put all the ill fish in there (or the well fish depending on numbers). I don't think it's gill flukes.

 

[Menagerie]

My Ites are through the roof.

What is the exact number?

I also can't tell if the gills are slimy, but several do appear red. Even my orange serpae's have red gills now if that tells you how quick this happened.

That could definitely be due to nitrite. Put in more salt. Salt will help nitrite poisoning.

Question, I use Amquel as my dechlor. Will that disguise the ammonia? I didn't think it would because I use a master test, but now....I'm not sure of anything.

Does the ammonia test have two bottles?

My Ites and Ates have never been higher than an occasional spike to .25 ppm. Usually it might spike after I feed them their brine shrimp treats and then goes back to normal within a couple of days or with a water change.

This is telling you that the bacteria in your filter is not keeping up with demand. You need a bigger filter for all these fish. Cut back feedings to every other day.

 

[Menagerie]

Ammonia Poisoning
Ammonia poisoning is caused by the buildup of organic waste due to overfeeding, fish or plant deaths and decay, or improper cycling. Ammonia poisoning especially occurs when the pH exceeds 7, when benign ammonium becomes ammonia. Symptoms of ammonia poisoning include sluggish behavior, panting, and gill discoloration (gill burn). Fish may hang just below the water surface. The easiest way to confirm ammonia poisoning is by testing the water. Ammonia poisoning can be reduced by reducing feedings, making water changes, lowering the pH, using zeolites, and increasing aeration.

Nitrite/Nitrate Poisoning
Nitrite/Nitrate poisoning is caused by the same activities as ammonia poisoning. Nitrite/Nitrate poisoning has the same symptoms as ammonia poisoning, and can be tested by a Nitrite/Nitrate water test kit. The best course of action, is to reduce feeding, make frequent partial water changes until the compounds are reduced, and increase the aeration in the water.

Chlorine Poisoning
Free chlorine, present in most tap water, is toxic to fish. Chlorine affects the gills and causes death by asphyxiation. Chlorine can be removed by boiling the water, letting the water stand for a few days, vigorously aerating the water, or by adding a water conditioner.

You may also be dealing with a parasite such as ich. The fish would become prone to it since they are stressed due to the high Ites (and Ates).

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Signs of a parasite infestation are:

1) Visible spots, usually white, that make the fish look like has been salted or covered with powdered sugar.

2) Rapid or heavy breathing. Some parasites will attack the gills before any can be seen on the fins or body, and the fish may die from suffocation.

3) Scratching. If a fish constantly rubs against objects in the tank and looks like he is trying to dislodge something, he is probably trying to rub something off and it is usually a parasite.

Because ICH reproduces in the gravel, the whole tank must be treated, not just the infected fish. Hospital tanks and dips seldom effect a permanent cure, and cause a great deal of extra stress for the fish. Ich infections may produce an immunity to later attacks.

Malachite Green is effective against parasites but may damage gills and\or chemically "burn" tetras and scaleless fish. Malachite Green that is not pure is especially dangerous.

Dylox is effective; it is an insecticide and usually is not toxic in recommended dosages.

 

[Cherry Barb]

My Ite reading is max on the card. This happened fast. Also, I did tell you those plants were added recently and they have tearing them up. My filter has been a little funny lately. i've had to clean it really good twice this month already due to plant debris. Of course, I thought the bio wheel was still good because it is rotating. i will replace that filter immediately. I will also reduce feedings. how much more salt od i ned to add?

Also, no my kit only has one bottle for ammonia testing. As soon as I get home I will remove plants, vac gravel & major water change.

No sign of ich...yet.
Thank Menagerie. I appreciate your help. Anything else u can think of?


R
R

 

[Cherry Barb]

Oh no! Its all my fault! I did something really stupid and never even considered what I was doing!
Remember I said I put in plants and the fish had eaten/destroyed one half of the tank? Well, a lot of plant debris has been clogging the filter. So, about a week or so ago, the filter was so badly clogged that I took it off the back of the tank and CLEANED IT! I messed with the bacteria and didn't even think about it. I was just thinking I needed to unclog the filter so the bio wheel would turn. I realized it when I was at my fav lfs speaking to someone who knows me and who didn't treat me like I was the plague. During the conversation it hit me!

He gave me the same advice about salt & such that you did Menagerie. He said I'm past the Ammonia burn but now we have to get the Ites under control, so they can turn to Ates and the tank will re-cycle. I never changed the filter cartridge or bio wheel but I never even considered the bacteria "inside" the filter unit.

I learned a VERY valuable and painful lesson. So far one danio and one cory have paid for it. I hope the other fish survive my lesson. I will NEVER do something like that again without thinking.

Thanks for all your help Menagerie. I'm sorry that I was the cause for all of the trouble. But I appreciate that you are here for me and my little fishies.

Rose

 

[Menagerie]

Thanks for all your help Menagerie. I'm sorry that I was the cause for all of the trouble. But I appreciate that you are here for me and my little fishies.

Rose, I am glad I could be here to help. Let me know if you need any more help.

Well, the good news is, there are no parasites in your tank :?

The next thing you need is a larger filter. I highly recommend the Fluval 104. Fill all the baskets with ceramic media. There is a separate sponge for mechanical filtration. If you ever need to add carbon, then you just place a baggy (you can get them at your LFS) with carbon into one of the baskets. Certainly do not add any more fish to your tank since it's already fully stocked!!