Models of Planted Tanks?

[mikeb]

I am helping my 7 year old daughter with her first aquarium. I have been lurking in here and reddit for a bit. I have read the getting started and grasp the idea of cycling the tank w/o fish first. We went and picked up a 29 gallon tank the other day.

I have to think that this exists, but I reserve the right to be wrong. I am not the most creative person in the room. I am looking for "example" tanks that the specific plants and fish work well together. Then looking to follow that example. Is there somewhere that lists different styles of freshwater tank setups that we could explore and then pick one and model our aquarium setup like the model?

On our first tank I think it would be easier to know the combination of substrate to plants to type of fish that all work well together, than me trying to figure each piece out individually. Thank you guys for the help on this adventure.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Ive never come across anything like what you are looking for. There are databases you can put a mix of fish into and see if there are issues, but nothing that will spit out suggestions. I think we had a recent enquiry about if there is a database you put in your water parameters and it would say whats suitable, but there is nothing that works that way round.

Generally, low demand easy to keep plants will be just fine with either gravel or sand substrate. Whatever is your preference. Some plants dont need a substrate at all. Plants you could look at for a first planted tank would be things like amazon swords, java fern, java moss, anubias, crypts, marimo moss balls.

As to fish, certain types of fish will do better in different water parameters. For instance livebearers like guppies, platys, mollys and swordtails will do better in harder water. Whereas tetras will do better in softer water. Commonly kept fish arent typically wild caught any more and will likely be captive bred, so could come from a wide variety of water parameters. Some fish are aggressive and not suitable for keeping with some other fish, but it all comes down to the temperament of individual fish. Some people will have problems and others not with the exact same mix of fish.

Personally, go to the fish store and see what appeals to you. Take it from there, research what else can go with what you like.

 

[ADsnail]

Welcome to the fish keeping hobby! Lots of people here will have advice of who goes with who and what plants to use. As a starter, you could look up the following on the internet:

1.-Aquarium fish. Hit 'images' and look at the various ones to get an idea of what you like. You could also go to the fish store and browse, armed with the following list...

2.-Compatible fish. When you see something you like, look up 'fish compatible with____'. Compatibility articles will mention why: they require the same temperatures, environment, peaceful together, inhabit top-middle-bottom of the tank, etc.

3.- How many to have in your tank size. Some fish need to be in a school (say, 6+), some need to be alone (like Bettas)

4.-Look up 'easy plants for aquariums' or 'beginner plants for aquariums'. There will be articles with pictures and descriptions. As a general rule, tall plants go in the back, medium in the middle, short plants in the front. Pay attention to how fast/how much they grow and spread. And keep in mind that sometimes they go through "plant melt" where they look like they died but are just acclimating and getting reading to start new growth. Plants provide a hiding place and opportunity to rest, as well as a break from the lights

5.-Do you want something else with your fish? Mystery snail (fun for kids to watch), nerite snails (they keep algae under control), shrimp?

6.-Substrate: gravel vs sand. There are fans of each, and some people have both. As you get closer to choosing what you want in the tank, you'll find descriptions of which is best for a plant, and also start to think about maintenance (cleaning) as time goes on.

One nice thing to do when starting is to search online for 'beautiful aquariums' and hit 'images'. There are some wonderful setups out there. Very inspiring.

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

Most true aquatic plants are fine with most freshwater aquarium fishes. Some fish like the silver dollar are vegetarian and will eat any lants in the tank, but most others are fine. The big issue with plants sold at shops is some are garden plants and don't belong in aquariums. I will post a write up on plants below.

As for substrate, if you want bottom dwelling fishes like catfish, loaches and eels, then use sand. A play sand from a hardware store is suitable. Just rinse it under tap water first. The easiest way to do this is to put a few inches of sand in a 10-20 litre bucket and squirt it with water from a hose. Half fill the bucket with water, wait a few seconds, then tip the water out. Rinse the sand a few more times and then put it in the tank.

If you don't plan on keeping bottom dwelling fishes, then small smooth dark coloured gravel is best. You can use lighter coloured gravel if you like but fish tend to fade in bright tanks and show better colours in dark tanks. A dark substrate (brown or black) combined with a dark picture on the back of the tank will encourage most fish to show good colours.

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What is the GH (general hardness), KH (carbonate hardness) and pH of your water supply?
This information can usually be obtained from your water supply company's website (Water Analysis Report) or by telephoning them. If they can't help you, take a glass full of tap water to the local pet shop and get them to test it for you. Write the results down (in numbers) when they do the tests. And ask them what the results are in (eg: ppm, dGH, or something else).

Depending on what the GH of your water is, will determine what fish you should keep.

Angelfish, discus, most tetras, most barbs, Bettas, gouramis, rasbora, Corydoras and small species of suckermouth catfish all occur in soft water (GH below 150ppm) and a pH below 7.0.

Livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), rainbowfish and goldfish occur in medium hard water with a GH around 200-250ppm and a pH above 7.0.

If you have very hard water (GH above 300ppm) then look at African Rift Lake cichlids, or use distilled or reverse osmosis water to reduce the GH and keep fishes from softer water.

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Look for an aquarium that is long and wide rather than tall and narrow. Surface area (length x width) is more important for fish than height.

 

[Colin_T]

AQUARIUM PLANTS 1.01


TURNING LIGHTS ON AND OFF
Stress from tank lights coming on when the room is dark can be an issue. Fish don't have eyelids and don't tolerate going from complete dark to bright light (or vice versa) instantly.

In the morning open the curtains or turn the room light on at least 30 minutes (or more) before turning the tank light on. This will reduce the stress on the fish and they won't go from a dark tank to a bright tank instantly.

At night turn the room light on and then turn the tank light off. Wait at least 30 minutes (or more) before turning the room light out. This allows the fish to settle down for the night instead of going from a brightly lit tank to complete darkness instantly.

Try to have the lights on at the same time each day. Use a timer if possible.

If the light unit is programmable, have it on a low setting for the first 30-60 minutes and increase the brightness over time. Do the opposite in the evening and gradually reduce the light for the last 30-60 minutes before lights out.

If you don't have live plants in the tank, you only need the light on for a few hours in the evening. You might turn them on at 4 or 5pm and off at 9pm.

If you do have live plants in the tank, you can have the lights on for 8-16 hours a day but the fish and plants need 8 hours of darkness to rest. Most people with live plants in their aquarium will have the lights on for 8-12 hours a day.


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LIGHTING TIMES
Most aquarium plants like a bit of light and if you only have the light on for a couple of hours a day, they struggle. If the light doesn't have a high enough wattage they also struggle. Try having the tank lights on for 10-12 hours a day.

If you get lots of green algae then reduce the light by an hour a day and monitor the algae over the next 2 weeks.
If you don't get any green algae on the glass then increase the lighting period by an hour and monitor it.
If you get a small amount of algae then the lighting time is about right.

Some plants will close their leaves up when they have had sufficient light. Ambulia, Hygrophilas and a few others close their top set of leaves first, then the next set and so on down the stem. When you see this happening, wait an hour after the leaves have closed up against the stem and then turn lights off.

Plant lights should have equal amount of red and blue light and a bit less green light.


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TWO LIGHT UNITS
If you have two light units on the tank, put them on timers and have one come on first, then an hour later the second one can come on. It will be less stressful for the fish.

In the evening, turn the first light off and wait an hour, then have the second light go out.

If the lights have a low, medium and high intensity setting, have them on low in the morning, then increase it to medium after a couple of hours, and then high for the main part of the day. In the evening, reverse this and have the medium setting for a few hours, then low. Then turn the lights off.


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LIST OF PLANTS TO TRY
Some good plants to try include Ambulia, Hygrophila polysperma, H. ruba/ rubra, Elodia (during summer, but don't buy it in winter because it falls apart), Hydrilla, common Amazon sword plant, narrow or twisted/ spiral Vallis, Water Sprite (Ceratopteris thalictroides/ cornuta).

The Water Sprite normally floats on the surface but can also be planted in the substrate. The other plants should be planted in the gravel.

Ambulia, H. polysperma, Elodia/ Hydrilla and Vallis are tall plants that do well along the back. Rotala macranda is a medium/ tallish red plant that usually does well.

H. ruba/ rubra is a medium height plant that looks good on the sides of the tank.

Cryptocorynes are small/ medium plants that are taller than pygmy chain swords but shorter than H. rubra. They also come in a range of colours, mostly different shades of green, brown or purplish red. Crypts are not the easiest plant to grow but can do well if they are healthy to begin with and are not disturbed after planting in the tank.

Most Amazon sword plants can get pretty big and are usually kept in the middle of the tank as a show piece. There is an Ozelot sword plant that has brown spots on green leaves, and a red ruffle sword plant (name may vary depending on where you live) with deep red leaves.

There is a pygmy chain sword plant that is small and does well in the front of the tank.


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TRUE AQUATIC VS MARSH/ TERRESTRIAL PLANTS
Lots of plants are sold as aquarium plants and most are marsh plants that do really well when their roots are in water and the rest of the plant is above water. Some marsh plants will do well underwater too.

Hair grass is not a true aquatic plant, neither is Anubias.

Some common marsh plants include Amazon sword plants, Cryptocorynes, Hygrophila sp, Rotala sp, Ludwigia sp, Bacopa sp. These plant do reasonably well underwater.

True aquatic plants include Ambulia, Cabomba, Hornwort, Elodia, Hydrilla and Vallis.

The main difference between marsh plants and true aquatic plants is the stem. True aquatics have a soft flexible stem with air bubbles in it. These bubbles help the plant float and remain buoyant in the water column.

Marsh plants have a rigid stem and these plants can remain standing upright when removed from water. Whereas true aquatic plants will fall over/ collapse when removed from water.


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IRON BASED PLANT FERTILISER
If you add an iron based aquarium plant fertiliser, it will help most aquarium plants do well. An iron based fertiliser is not just iron, it contains other nutrients as well, but the main ingredient is iron. The liquid iron based aquarium plant fertilisers tend to be better than the tablet forms, although you can push the tablets under the roots of plants and that works well.

You use an iron (Fe) test kit to monitor iron levels and keep them at 1mg/l (1ppm).

I used Sera Florena liquid plant fertiliser but there are other brands too.


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CARBON DIOXIDE (CO2)
There is no point adding carbon dioxide (CO2) until you have the lights and nutrients worked out. Even then you don't need CO2 unless the tank is completely full of fast growing true aquatic plants and only has a few small fish in or no fish in it.

There are no natural waterways anywhere around the world that have supplemental CO2 added to them to make aquatic plants grow. People add CO2 to aquariums to help some marsh/ terrestrial plants grow underwater. These plants should not be grown in aquariums and the fact they need to add CO2 (as well as huge amounts of fertiliser and light) just to keep them alive is a clear indication they shouldn't be kept underwater.

In an average aquarium, there is a constant source of carbon dioxide produced all day and night by the fish, and the bacteria in the gravel and filter. More CO2 gets into the aquarium from the air mixing with the water. And plants release small amounts of CO2 when resting. There is no real need to add CO2, either in a gas or liquid form to an aquarium unless it is devoid of fish. There is plenty of CO2 in the water in most aquariums.

Liquid CO2 boosters often contain Glutaraldehyde, which is a disinfectant used to clean and sterilise medical equipment. It is highly toxic to fish and other aquatic organisms and people have wiped out tanks by adding too much of it. These products should not be used for aquariums.

For aquarium plants to use supplemental CO2, they need lots of light and lots of nutrients. Unless they have the light and nutrients, they won't use a lot of CO2, so there's no point adding extra. To check if your plants are getting lots of light, see if any of them produce streams of tiny little bubbles from their leaves. This is called pearling and is the plant photosynthesising and producing tiny bubbles of oxygen. Algae also does this when given bright light and nutrients.


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PLANT SUBSTRATE
Some pet shops sell aquatic plant substrates that are meant to improve plant growth. Most don't do anything except add a lot of ammonia to the water and eventually turn into a brown mud on the bottom. Since the majority of aquatic plants take in the nutrients they need via their leaves, having a plant substrate is not going to help much. There are exceptions to this and laterite (red clay) can sometimes be added to the gravel to increase the iron level for the plants taking in nutrients via their roots. But for most plant tanks, all you need is gravel on the bottom of the tank.

Most aquatic plants need at least 2 inches of substrate to grow in and some need 3-4 inches.

 

[mikeb]

Thank you!!! This is awesome. I went to the fish store today. I picked up my lid, net and a water test kit. I also talked to the lady there and she was trying to convince me to do the live fish in cycle. I honestly would rather do the zero fish cycle.

I think the next thing I need to get is the substrate. I think I would like darker substrate. The fish store was pushing me to get the Flourite Premium Natural Substrate. I think this is what you guys are saying would push off too much ammonia? Any recommendations on a darker substrate for live plants? Just gravel?

 

[Colin_T]

Just get plain boring gravel, you don't need a plant substrate. But before you do that and before you buy anything else, go to the pet shop or a number of pet shops and make a list of fish you like, then post the list here. We can go through it and make suggestions on compatibility and substrate. You can also make a list of plants you like and post it here. If you don't know the names of the fish or plants, take pictures of them and post the pictures here.

What size net did you get?
Any aquarium fish net smaller than 4 inches is a waste of time. You can't catch anything with little nets. If you want nets, get a 5 or 6 inch net (4 inch is the smallest you want) and depending on tank size, an 8-12 inch net. But just hold off buying stuff until you know what fish you want, because the fish will determine the tank size, substrate and ornaments/ plants, light and filter.

 

[mikeb]

I mainly was at the fish store just to check some out outside of the standard Petco stores. I had never been to a true fish store. Kind of cool. The person there I could tell was ready to sell me the 9 yards, but once I was able to reel her in a bit we got a few things accomplished.

Ok, so I will start getting together a list of fish. I have been seeing a fish called Neon Tetra. We were at a natural science museum the other day and their tank had a bunch in there. I know my daughter wants some bottom feeders so not sure what might work on that part. Then if there is any suggestions on a center piece fish I am all ears.

I will hold off until we build a full list of fish we intend to put into the tank. That is super helpful. BTW, the net I got is a 6". I just lucked into that, and thank you.

 

[Colin_T]

A 6 inch net is a good size, so that's good

Neon tetras are a small fish that lives in large groups. In the wild they occur in groups of thousands so even 10-20 is a small number for them in the aquarium. They don't like big fish swimming around them because big fish eat small fish. Even if the big fish is a vegetarian, the size intimidates the little fish.

Instead of getting a centre piece fish, get 20-30 neons and let them cruise around the tank as the centre piece. Then have a group of Corydoras on the bottom, and maybe a small species of gourami (sparking or honey gourami) for the top part of the tank. If the tank is big enough (4 foot+), you could add a pr of dwarf cichlids like Apistogramma cacatuoides. You would have sand on the bottom for this set up.

In a 3ft tank you could do 20-30 neon tetras, 10 black phantom tetras, 10 pygmy Corydoras, 1pr of small gouramis, a couple of mystery snails and a bristlenose catfish.

Avoid dwarf gouramis (Colisa lalius) and all of their colour forms because they are regularly infected with Fish Tuberculosis (TB) and or the Gourami iridovirus. Neither of these diseases can be treated and once they are in the tank, they are there until you disinfect everything, including the fish.

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The following links are on YouTube and have neon tetras. You could do something similar but on a smaller scale with 20-30 neons in a 3ft tank.

 

[ADsnail]

The minimum amount of neon tetras to keep them happy is 8-12. Guppies get along well with them and are very entertaining. They're not too big, come in many pretty varieties, and have a lot of personality (my little niece named hers, and they're the only fish she named). The ratio for guppies is one male with two females so there's no fighting. More females, or more males, increases aggression between them.

 

[mikeb]

All great information. So I checked with my 7 year old boss. She is on board with Neon Tetras as the main fish. The third video was very informative. My kids watched it as well. Apparently, they ran across the Peacock Gudgeon that they really liked as well. Would that fish be a fit with the Tetras?

The other tank mate that they liked for the bottom and algae eater was the Kuhli Loaches. Would love to get input on them as well.

Also, initially I was thinking a darker substrate to make the fish colors stand out. However, it looks like all these neon tetra setups have the light brown beach sand setups. That is completely fine, just wondering if there is black beach sand available, and if that might be a good idea or not.

 

[Colin_T]

The sand in the first 2 videos looks like white play sand, available from most hardware stores. It's smooth and fine ad is great for bottom dwelling fishes, and is generally safe and clean to use because it's designed for use in playgrounds for children.

You can get black sand but you have to make sure it doesn't affect the pH or GH (general hardness) of the water. You can also get fine brown gravel, which looks like brown sand. Ask the pet shops what they can get in because they usually have access to more variety, but carry what sells best. Any substrate will need to be smooth for the bottom dwelling fishes.

Peacock gudgeons (Tateurndina ocellicauda) and Khuli loaches can be kept with neon tetras. The Khuli loaches hide during the day and most are never seen until you put food in or clean the tank. If you want a bottom dwelling fish that is more active, then look for pygmy Corydoras. They live in groups and spend a lot of time cruising around the bottom part of the tank.

 

[mikeb]

We went by the pet store to check out a few species of fish to go with the Neon Tetras. She has moved on from the neon's to the cardinals b/c they had a bit more red on the belly. We looked for the Khuli Loaches, but like you said they would not come out unless the rocks were moved. So they are out.

So this is the list of fish at this point for the 29 Gallon Tank:

20 Cardinal Tetras
2 Peacock gudgeons (Tateurndina ocellicauda)
4 pygmy Corydoras
2 Mystery Snails

Do we need some algae eaters? I think it might be prudent to start with adding a few fish at a time after the fishless cycle instead of this whole list.

We are going to go with the white play sand from the hardware store. I have to assume one bag would be plenty to achieve a depth of 3" in a 29 Gallon tank.

In regards to live plants. What would go well with this species? Looking for easy hardy plants at this point. Tall in the back, medium middle and short for the front. I also like the floating plants we have seen at the fish stores. Any recommendations is appreciated.

Will we need a heater for this tank? We typically keep the house around 77F. However, in the winter we will let it sink down to 68F at times. We are in Texas. Thanks for all the help!

 

[Colin_T]

I would get at least 6-8 (preferably 10) pygmy Corydoras because they need to be in groups.

You won't need algae eaters because the snails will eat algae and uneaten food.

Post number 5 has info on good plants to try. Ambulia, Hygrophila polysperma, Amazon sword plant (Echinodorus sp), narrow Vallis, Water Sprite are good to try.

No idea on how much sand you need.

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The idea of cycling the filter/ tank is so you can add all the fish at once after it has cycled. However, there's no problem adding one group of fish and waiting a month before adding more. Every time you add new fish to an established tank, you potentially introduce diseases that will need treating. A quarantine tank is recommended in this situation. All new fish should be quarantined for at least 2 (preferably 4) weeks before they are added to an established tank. you don't need to quarantine the first batch of fish going into the display tank because they will be the only ones affected.

If you want to add all the fish at the same time, an established biological filter will handle the load and you reduce the risk of diseases being added with each batch of fish. But you increase the potential for a disease to come in due to the number of fish you get. However, if you add all the fish at once and they do develop a disease, you simply treat the main tank. You can treat the main tank anyway even if you add some fish each month and a disease appears but it's preferable to quarantine new stock so they don't bring something into the display tank.

If you have concerns about losing the fish because you are new to fish keeping, just get one group of fish at a time and wait a month before adding more. With tetras, it's a good idea to get the entire group of 20 at the same time. I would add them as the first fish. If finances are an issue, get 10 and wait a month before getting 10 more.

When buying fish in general, look in the tank and see if there are any dead fish.
Look for fish with clamped fins or cream, white or grey patches on their body or fins.
Look for fish with small white dots on their body or fins, or fish rubbing on objects in the tank.
Look for red patches or lines on their body or fins (not natural red colour).
Look for fish gasping at the surface or near a filter outlet.
Look for individual fish sitting in a corner by themself instead of staying in the main group.
Neon tetras and cardinal tetras can carry a bacterial infection that causes the red and blue lines to fade and turn white. If you see any fish in the tank with a faded or white patch in the red or blue lines, avoid all fish in that tank.
Avoid getting any fish from tanks that have fish exhibiting these symptoms.

If in doubt, take a photo (and video if possible) and go home without the fish. Post pictures here and we can check them for disease.



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Neon tetras tolerate cooler conditions better than cardinal tetras, which prefer warmer conditions. If your water temperature is going to drop to 68F in winter, then neon tetras are the better choice. In cooler weather, you won't need to feed the fish as often.

 

[mikeb]

This is all amazing information. We have some setup that is going to occur to get the room ready to install the tank. So it might be a bit before the tank gets set, but now I feel armed with good information instead of killing fish along the way. Thank you for all the help, and I will be lurking here and staying in touch.

Thank you!!