Natural Aquarium?

[jsoong]

In the OLD days <Victorian England>, the whole aquarium hobby started without electricity. I think the fish that started it all is the white cloud. They thrived in tanks without heater, filtration or lights.

If you have a bright window, it might be possible to create a healthy ecosystem using a big <say 5-10 gal> glass bowl, some plants & some white clouds.

<PS - the white clouds in glass bowls eventually evolved into our goldfish in a tiny bowl .... so I am not advocating doing this for all fish!>

 

[Veneer]

The white cloud mountain minnow (Tanichthys albonubes - so named after the Chinese national, Tan, who discovered it) hails from the White Cloud Mountains of China; it was described in 1930.

 

[benji-star]

i thought that fish keeping originated in china

 

[Veneer]

i thought that fish keeping originated in china

For ornamental purposes (with cyprinids, namely carp and goldfish) - that was probably so; this depends on where (or if) one draws the line between, say, damming up an inlet of the sea or a stream for the purpose of ensuring greater constancy of availability of organisms for consumption; creating artifical grow-out or interim housing ponds for food animals; the fostering polyculture of fish and domesticated crops (Southeast Asia in particular is notable for the widespread introduction of fish and freshwater prawns to rice paddies for later harvesting [either simultaneously or in otherwise fallow post-harvest fields]); dual utilization of fish as pond ornamentals and foodstuffs (as in Mesopotamia and Nilotic Egypt); and full-fledged "fish keeping"; even today, these distinctions are often blurred.

This, however, does not imply that white clouds were the first ornamental captive fish; they are presumable relatively unknown, even past their official description, to locals.

Tan Kan Fei was a boy scout leader who collected some of these minnows while on an outing with the scouts in the White Cloud Mountains in southern China near the city of Canton. He gave them to In Shu-Yen, the director of the Fish Biology Station. Lin published a description of the fish in 1932 and named them in honor of Tan. The name chosen is Tanichthys albonubes, which means Tan's fish from the white clouds.

From http://www.norwalkas.org/docs/white cloud.htm

The white cloud was hardly a likely candidate for early fishkeeping in its native Guangdong (where it is now endangered - see this link and this link), let alone Victorian Europe.

 

[jsoong]

Far as I know ... Ornamental fish keeping has a long (thousands) year history in China. But we kept the fish in ponds and ceramic bowls (big ones to be sure), so can't really call that "aquarium". <That's the reason koi & goldies are bred to be viewed from the top, not the side as in an aquarium.>

The glass aquarium is a European thing, and from what I read, the aquarium craze (or hobby ) started in England.

 

[Veneer]

Far as I know ... Ornamental fish keeping has a long (thousands) year history in China. But we kept the fish in ponds and ceramic bowls (big ones to be sure), so can't really call that "aquarium" <That's the reason koi & goldies are bred to be viewed from the top, not the side as in an aquarium.>

The glass aquarium is a European thing, and from what I read, the aquarium craze (or hobby ) started in England.

Most of the domesticated strains of goldfish were bred to be observed from above (when viewed in this manner, the appearances of the more 'grotesque' strains supposedly improve considerably [as compared to the 'side view' offered by glass aquaria]).

 

[TankGirl]

Right - I am under the impression that the paradise fish was the first fish to be kept in what we would call an aquarium, and this was done in Victorian England, AFAIK - good question tho so now I'll have to hunt up the reference or it'll drive me crazy the rest of the night, lol!

 

[TankGirl]

Okay, Linnaeus ("father of taxonomy") discovered this fish and imported it back to Europe in the late 1700's, and is considered to be the first fish collected and transported to be kept in aquariums, as opposed to local fish that people kept alive in ponds or jars near where they were collected, without being imported or traded. This discovery led to more expeditions and the discovery of more labyrinth fish like the betta.

 

[jsoong]

OK, I stand corrected .... right country but wrong fish!

 

[czcz]

How's your experiment going TG?

(If interested, still have green water and hard green spot algae problems with my natural/closed ~2g... maybe I need to increase artifical light and lessen ambient sunlight.)

 

[TankGirl]

Mine is going just great. I forgot to post my progress here, sorry!

There is no change in the tank and honestly you can't really tell there is no filtration, as it looks exactly the same. The only issue that has me concerned is temperature. The liquid crystal thermometer is on the opposite (longways) end of the tank and reads about 72F. I have my heater up to 78 but it is not heating the whole tank.

The conventional wisdom is that in these rather still pools that Endler's come from there are variations in temp in different parts of the body of water and they move more towards the warm parts when they are cold, and move away from them when they are warm. It does concern me a bit though for long-term health of these fish in a closed system.

I may turn on the filter just to keep the tank warm all over but I have not decided yet. I have seen a little more green thread algae in this tank lately, but I have not been as religious with my Flourish Excel and that might be playing a role.

I think the green water you have, czcz, is likely a product of the natural light, and many natural aquarium keepers don't mind green water because it feeds fry and many of the species that they keep come from green water areas, but for me, even though I am running an experiment, I still want an esthetically pleasing aquarium and green water just doesn't do it for me

 

[czcz]

That's great. Temperature situation and its replication of endler's enviornment is interesting.

I hear you about green water. If less natural light fails, I might try again with a larger volume of water and emersed growth as a small biotope/theme. Might be cool with a shallow but wide (5g?) glass container. Dunno... just thinking. I like the natural concept a lot and find much of naturalaquariums.com interesting, but am too inexperienced to execute it without experimentation.

 

[TankGirl]

Experimentation will bear so much more fruit for you anyway, and validate the concepts. Keeps things interesting, also!

 

[benji-star]

glad to hear it is not turn out to be a tragedy
I have been looking it to this still trying to see how it would go for a pond

 

[TankGirl]

Natural Aquarium? *Update w/pic*

Here is an updated pic of the natural aquarium, which continues to thrive and support more baby Endler's - I think my foreground lily plant has become a mid to background plant and will have to get moved, and the crypts may be outgrowing this tank but I'm in a holding pattern for now. The idea of stirring up that muck is not terribly appealing. When you put your hand in the tank there is a very noticeable difference in temp near the heater and far from it, but this does not seem to be bothering the fish, though I have some concerns because Endler's tend to have reproductive problems in cooler water. I have not seen my cherry shrimp in a good while - but sometimes I don't see them for weeks on end so I'm not writing them off just yet.

 

[czcz]

I'm envious How about letting the crypt grow emerged? I'm preparing to try it after getting advice from Travis Simonson and Lance M, fwiw.

 

[Billsgate]

My 18.5g has been running without filtration for 1 week now. I panicked when I first saw that my filter stopped working, but then I thought about this post. I have allot of plants in that tank and I thought I'd have a go at running it 'naturally'.
Since my filter has stopped working, all fish are doing fine. In fact, my honey gouramies decided to have a go at breeding (again ). This time I see way more little survivors then at previous attempts. Probably because they aren't being sucked up by the filter anymore. Sadly enough I don't have the space to move them to a different tank for growing out. My 3.5g tank doesn't have a lid on it, and to raise labyrinth fishies the temperature above the tank must be about the same as the water temerature. This is impossible for me, because the tank is next to a window that is open at night (bedroom window). But I'm going off topic here
So, anyway, tank is doing fine, fish are all fine, and I took a sample of my water to the lfs yesterday to check. Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrates 5-10 ppm.

Here's a pic of my tank, quality isn't that great:

 

[TankGirl]

I think your tank ought to do fine, Thomas, do you have plans to replace the filter or are you going to leave it as is? You certainly have enough plants in there to provide O2, but I am interested in your observations with your higher stocking level.

czcz - I will very likely try growing the crypts emersed, since I'll likely not take any action before they reach the top, lol!

 

[Billsgate]

One concern I have is that my fish do not have enough swimming space in that tank, with that many plants. Offcourse they arent able to complain, but I'm thinking that once in a while they want to stretch their fins and swim a bit more then 2 strokes and then turn. Do you think this is a problem? I don't know if they are troubled by this or not, they look fine.

I do have plans with that tank and will be buying a new filter, but this will be in a month or 2. I going to empty the whole tank. Well basically, here's what I'm planning on doing. I'm going to return all my fish to the lfs (donate them, I don't even want money for them), except for my pair of keyhole cichlids. Then I will breed them, which will work And transfer some of the little ones to the 18.5 g for growout on their own, and leave some with the parents in the 28 g.
I was thinking of making the 18.5g sand bottom, some java moss and/or riccia attached to some rocks and driftwood, and some shrimp and an apple snail or two. That way it's not empty untill I have youngs.

 

[TankGirl]

It is hard to tell from the picture, but if they are not able to really swim around much then you might want to clear some space for them.