New 6 Gallon....HELP!

[Jobin13]

So I recently bought a 6 gallon tank to do a small planted community tank with Dwarf Emerald Rasboras and Chili Red Shrimps. With the hopes of adding Celestial Pearl Danios later. Was going to only have about 6 fish total.. 3 DER and 3 CPD, and 3-5 shrimps.

I started my tank and fishless cycled it...(well it appeared to be cycled at the time). I went and picked up 2 DER from my local fish store (thats all they had), and I immediately lost a fish over night. I then did a water test and it appears to be okay:
pH-6.8
Ammonia-0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-60

I brought the fish back, they replaced it, and I got 4 more for a total of 6 DER. I also got 2 shrimp. My tank was running well for about 3 days, I was doing 15-20% water changes every day up until this point because of minute levels of nitrite in the water. I then lost both shrimp overnight and immediately knew something was wrong. My pH had dropped below 6 in a matter of hours... I had some signs of water chemistry issues but nothing to be overly concerned with (ammonia- >0.25, nitrite-0 nitrate-60). I did a water change to raise the pH and added Seachem Stability and Prime because i wasn't sure what was going on. I then left for the weekend and had my girlfriend take care of the tank. Her readings were:
Friday pH: 6.6
Ammonia: >0.25
Nitrite:0.25
Nitrate:5

Saturday pH: 6.6
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 0.25
Nitrate: 10

Sunday morning pH: 6.4 (she added 1/4 scoop of sachem neutral regulator)
pH after: 6.8
ammonia: 1
Nitrite:0
Nitrate: 10

I came home sunday night and checked it again because she said it started to build ammonia.

Sunday night pH:6.2
ammonia: 2
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5

I immediately did a 50% water change. and added a dose of Seachem Prime and stability.

After that my water has been fluctuating terribly. Yesterday my water levels read
pH: 6.6
Ammonia:2
nitrite:
Nitrate:0

treated again with prime and stability.

This morning they were
pH: >6
Ammonia:4
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:0

Conducted a 50%water change, and treated again with Seachem Prime and Stability.


I'm scared to loose my DER. I was bummed about the shrimp but I really like these guys. Since this weekend they have been handing exclusively under my pre filter sponge.

Any thoughts on what I should do??

 

[Ashenwelt]

What is your gh and my? You may have no buffer or are you injecting CO2?

These could impact you and cause major pH swings.

 

[drm315]

A six gallon tank is very small. Seems kinda small for the amount of livestock you have and want to keep in it. How long did you cycle the tank? I feel like the livestock you put in there overwhelmed the bacteria you had growing. In other words, you didn't have enough bacteria to take on that bioload of fish waste and therefore ammonia and nitrites started rising. My advice would be to make this a tank for maybe a single betta or possibly a cherry shrimp tank.

All of the fish you mentioned need at least 10-20 gallon tanks and to be in schools of at least six each to be happy.

 

[Jobin13]

Ashenwelt: I have no way of testing these water parameters at the moment... I am not injecting CO2. any advice to continue?

drm315: these fish only grow up to an inch, my LFS stated that this tank would be sufficient for 6 fish for now. I'm looking to upgrade tanks for the fish and turn the 6 gallon into a shrimp tank. I currently have a school of 6 DER. I cycled the tank for 2 weeks with no ammonia or nitrates present.

 

[drm315]

Ashenwelt: I have no way of testing these water parameters at the moment... I am not injecting CO2. any advice to continue?

drm315: these fish only grow up to an inch, my LFS stated that this tank would be sufficient for 6 fish for now. I'm looking to upgrade tanks for the fish and turn the 6 gallon into a shrimp tank. I currently have a school of 6 DER. I cycled the tank for 2 weeks with no ammonia or nitrates present.

It takes approximately 4 weeks (sometimes longer) to properly cycle a tank and it's pretty imperative to have a test kit (API master freshwater kit is used a lot) to be able to test your water, especially if you are doing a fish-in cycle.

Here's an article that will help with fish-in cycling:
Fish-in Cycling: Step over into the dark side - Aquarium Advice

And, hate to say it, but most employees at lfs are there to sell fish and supplies, not to educate the public on the proper way of taking care of fish. I'm meaning no disrespect to you here, but this tank does seem very small for that many fish, especially since both species prefer to be in schools of at least six.

I have one lfs with ONE employee who seems to know his stuff and even referred me to another aquarium store for more help and knowledgeable staff

 

[Jobin13]

It takes approximately 4 weeks (sometimes longer) to properly cycle a tank and it's pretty imperative to have a test kit (API master freshwater kit is used a lot) to be able to test your water, especially if you are doing a fish-in cycle.

Here's an article that will help with fish-in cycling:
Fish-in Cycling: Step over into the dark side - Aquarium Advice

And, hate to say it, but most employees at lfs are there to sell fish and supplies, not to educate the public on the proper way of taking care of fish. I'm meaning no disrespect to you here, but this tank does seem very small for that many fish, especially since both species prefer to be in schools of at least six.

I have one lfs with ONE employee who seems to know his stuff and even referred me to another aquarium store for more help and knowledgeable staff

I do have the API Freshwater master test kit. I just don't have the supplies to test "gh" or "my". I'm honestly not sure what that is... I will take you advice and leave my school of six intact and I will not add more fish until I am able to upgrade the size of the tank. it did seem crazy that I could have 12 fish and multiple shrimp in there even with the old adage of 3cm of fish per gallon...

I appreciate your help and I'll look into the article you posted. Thanks again!

 

[toolman]

Jobin13..both species mentioned do indeed need a bigger tank. It's not necessarily the size of the fish, but some small but active fish need room to swim. Lfs employee probably based their advice on the 1" per gallon of water rule. This rule really doesn't work for most fish because of their need to swim and move around to avoid aggression.
Like you and someone else living together in a closet, you're gonna want to get away.

As for the pH I believe Ashenwalt is correct, research gh (general hardness) & kh (carbonate hardness) and get some way to test them (I have used an aquarium test kit, aquarium test strips and pool hardness test kit to check). Would recommend not using the neutral regulator it contains phosphate which can lead to algae and pH swings. pH swings can be deadly to your fish. Most well water is hard, I have to add purified water to lower my hardness, maybe you can find a source of well water(or other hard water) while you get information on safely raising your kh (this is the one that affects your buffer and pH). I am not an expert on raising kh, like I said have to lower mine.

As far as cycling your tank...you said for two weeks no ammonia or nitrites were present, but they are necessary to produce the beneficial bacteria that your trying to form while cycling.

Here are some articles that explains the nitrogen cycle and other things to know when starting an aquarium. We are here to help, we were once new also.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154837

Here is some info on the dwarfs emerald rasboras also.

http://www.tropical-fish-keeping.com/emerald-dwarf-rasbora-microrasbora-erythromicron.html

 

[Ashenwelt]

So as an aside the stocking levels should be fine for a six. Two of them are actually on my stocking list that I curate over at FishLore.com for 5 gallon tanks. However you should not keep CPD and EDR in the same tank as they hybridize. EDR also did NOT make the cut for 5s... so I would skip on a six. I would do all CPD, EDR are more active.

However, your numbers are off the board. You can take some water to nearly any LFS and they can tell you your kh and gh. Heck if all else fails go to big block pet store. Get the water tested then you can deal with it.

Remember if your pH is swinging it will impact your cycle.

 

[Jobin13]

So as an aside the stocking levels should be fine for a six. Two of them are actually on my stocking list that I curate over at FishLore.com for 5 gallon tanks. However you should not keep CPD and EDR in the same tank as they hybridize. EDR also did NOT make the cut for 5s... so I would skip on a six. I would do all CPD, EDR are more active.

However, your numbers are off the board. You can take some water to nearly any LFS and they can tell you your kh and gh. Heck if all else fails go to big block pet store. Get the water tested then you can deal with it.

Remember if your pH is swinging it will impact your cycle.

So I'm okay keeping 6 EDR in my 6 gallon if I read that correctly?

Also Since my last post I have been super busy and unable to get to the LFS in order to purchase a test kit for gh and kh. I have done 50-75% daily water changes in order to keep my levels in check the best I can.

Since my last post, my readings have spiked again with ammonia which got up to 2ppm and my ph has been fluctuating from 6.6 to >6 so I believe I have a buffering issue like you had stated.


***However I've noticed that my pH drops overtime as my ammonia levels start to decrease. Yesterday my ammonia level was 2 and my pH was 6.4, today my ammonia levels were .5 or so and my pH was below 6. is this normal when you have problems with gh or kh?

I'm planning on going to the LFS first thing tomorrow to pick up a kit. hopefully I can provide those values to you and can get some advice.


Thanks again to everyone for the awesome help.

 

[Ashenwelt]

I would do CPD over EDR. EDR are a hair more active.

 

[Jobin13]

I would do CPD over EDR. EDR are a hair more active.

Thats good to know.

I got the Gh and Kh test kit.
Tap water gh: 2
tap water kh: 2-3 It changes at 2 but much more clear at 3 so maybe like 2.5

Tank:
Gh was 2 and kH was 0.

pH:6
Ammonia:2
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:0


What should I do?

 

[Ashenwelt]

I would add*baking soda (sodium*bicarbonate). One teaspoon dissolved in a cup of aquarium water if adding directly to the tank. Add by quarters of a cup at a time till your kh was registering. This will raise pH so slow and steady... maybe across 24 hours or so. And you might not use it all.

Just my process.

 

[Jobin13]

Thats great news! thanks!

 

[Ashenwelt]

John the baking soda trick above will raise kh.

 

[Jobin13]

Should I also be continuing with the daily water changes due to the ammonia? or should I make them less frequent?

 

[Ashenwelt]

Should I also be continuing with the daily water changes due to the ammonia? or should I make them less frequent?

Yep. And just make sure you keep the kh up a little.

 

[Jobin13]

John the baking soda trick above will raise kh.

So after doing the baking soda treatment my water parameters looked much better. However today I noticed that my water is a little cloudy, and there is an oil sheen/slick on the surface of the water.... I did a water change and it seems to have helped with the slick but the water is still a little cloudy. Besides the baking soda I've only treated my tank with Stability and Prime, but since stability calls for a capful for 20 gallons and I've been doing about a half a cap, I'm wondering if this could this be a bacterial bloom....?

Nitrite levels are still at 0 and I still have ammonia in the tank.. So I'm thinking that the Stability really isn't doing anything...

 

[Ashenwelt]

Easily could be a bloom.

 

[Jobin13]

Easily could be a bloom.

To give you an update...

After that "bloom" I had very low ammonia levels 0.25-0.5ppm (coming down from about 2 ppm) and no Nitrite spike and no nitrate spike.. I did do a 50% water change and added some baking soda to the new water to bring down the ammonia levels and up the kH.

After testing the water again today my ammonia levels have returned to about 1ppm. Nitrites 0. Nitrates 0. and pH 6.6

I still have not been able to establish nitrite fixing bacteria in this tank.

Any new tricks? or just ride out the water changes?

 

[Ashenwelt]

I would ride out the water changes and keep with the stability or go to another bottled bacteria.