New Fish HELP

[Aiken Drum]

Im assuming that glofish tetras have the same behaviour as non GM black phatoms.

They generally hang out together. When it comes to breeding the males will compete over territory to attract a female. They have these (usually non-lethal) fights which are cool to watch.

I presume your new fish are not much more than babies though, and with only 3 they wont be showing their usual social behaviour which could come out as aggression towards other fish and it all being targeted towards an individual rather than spread amongst the group. Until your fish settle down in their new home and you can up the numbers a bit, things like this are expected to happen.

I suppose your individual could be sick. As mentioned glofish are prone to ill health.

 

[ddp_58]

What can I do if he is sick. Is there a way to ensure he isn’t sick. He rarely comes out of the corner, should I return him to the pet store and get another Glofish to replace it. Or should I let it settle for a few days.

 

[Aiken Drum]

I keep saying the fish is just doing what you wouid expect a new fish to. Its taking a little time to adjust, its stressed about its move, its stressed about being removed from the comfort of its companions, and its stressed about being in an uncycled tank.

If its sick and you dont have a spare tank to quatantine it in, the best thing you can do is get the tank cycled. Change water if ammonia and/or nitrite get elevated as you have been doing. Not eating is a sign of a sick fish, but its a sign of other things too (see my point above) and trying to deal with a sick fish while trying to cycle your tank isnt a good idea. Priority should be cycling the tank even if the fish is sick.

As said, glofish are notoriously not hardy fish, are prone to all sorts of health issues and they die quite easily. If you bought 3 fish and 2 are healthy and doing well, thats pretty good going. You could return the 3rd and see if they will swap it, but i think the best thing for that fish right now is for you keep it, keep up with your water changes, hope it settles in, and lives a long life. Ive given you some advice on trying to get it to eat. Not much more you can do.

 

[Aiken Drum]

But when I float the food they don’t eat ( is it because they don’t see it), when I push the down into the tank two of the Glofish eat.

Not all fish will take food off the surface. None of the different types of tetra i keep do. Flakes will sink on their own eventually, or take your pinch of food, hold it under the surface of the water a little, then release it. It should then sink.

 

[ddp_58]

Ok thank you I. Sometime when I release the food under water, most of it remains uneaten and sinks to the bottom. Wouldn’t that increase ammonia? Do I have to remove the uneaten food right away?

The other Glofish that was always sitting in the corner has become somewhat more active today, although still he hasn’t eaten.

 

[Aiken Drum]

You should be feeding enough food that is eaten in 2 to 3 minutes once per day. If you still have food floating around after 3 minutes you are feeding too much. If food is collecting on the substrate then remove it after 30 minutes or so. You can use a turkey baster to remove uneaten food. Once you start adding a few more fish, you can add some clean up crew to eat food off the substrate so manual cleaning becomes something you dont need to do. The corys i mentioned will do a good job of scavenging food off the substrate. Perhaps a couple of snails too?

Good news on the fish becoming more comfortable.

 

[ddp_58]

Hi, I did an ammonia test yesterday and it was between 0.5-1.0 which is pretty stressful and maybe dangerous for your fish. So I did a water change and added some API QuickStart. I measured the ammonia today and it’s still 0.5-1.0.

 

[Aiken Drum]

More water changes. Target should be ammonia + nitrite combined no higher than 0.5ppm.

 

[ddp_58]

The funny thing is that ammonia levels are a little high but when I measure for nitrite they were safe.

 

[Aiken Drum]

The funny thing is that ammonia levels are a little high but when I measure for nitrite they were safe.

Thats entirely what i would expect to see from an uncycled tank less than a week old.

Lets go back to my post #2. Do you understand the nitrogen cycle and how to cycle a tank?

 

[ddp_58]

Yes I am aware of the nitrogen cycle. Where beneficial bacteria eats ammonia, then the other BB eats nitrite, which then another BB eats the nitrite and produces nitrate which is less toxic and fish can live with it when the levels are normal.

When I went to the pet store they said I would be able to put in fish 24-48 hours after using API QuickStart. So that’s what I did. But any tips now?

 

[Aiken Drum]

Products like quickstart "might" help cycle a tank. Mostly they do nothing.

Lesson learnt. People who work in fish stores often know no more than you do about keeping fish, and even if they do, their job is to sell you stuff. They got you to buy a product that most of the time does nothing, they got to sell you fish without explaining how to cycle a tank letting you believe quickstart will do it for you, which will lead to sick and dying fish, and then they get to sell you more fish to replace them.

Whats happening is you have none (or very little) of the bacteria thats responsible for the nitrogen cycle. Fish produce ammonia, none (or very little) of that goes to nitrite. So ammonia builds up until it eventually gets to harmful levels unless controlled through regular water changes.

 

[Aiken Drum]

To cycle a tank you need to grow denitrifying bacteria to consume ammonia and nitrite that your tank produces. The bacteria needs an ammonia source to grow colonies sufficient in size to consume all the ammonia and resultant nitrite and turn it into nitrate which typically you remove through your regular water changes.

A fish in cycle uses fish waste as an ammonia source and regular water changes are undertaken to ensure that water parameters are maintained at relatively non toxic levels.

Set up your tank. Make sure everything is running smoothly. Make sure you have used a water conditioner product with any tap water you have put in your tank. Seachem Prime is a water conditioner that will also detoxify some ammonia for a day or two, so is a good choice for a water conditioner while cycling a tank with fish.

You should have a test kit. Preferably a liquid test kit. It should test for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

In ideal circumstances you should be starting a fishless cycle with a low bioload (number of fish). 1 small fish per 10 gallons/40 litres is a good number of fish, but this can be tweaked a little for fish that are social and don’t do well on their own. Ideally a hardy type of fish. You may have fully stocked (or overstocked) your tank before you knew about cycling. In these circumstances, if its not possible to return fish, you will have to make the best of it.

If you haven’t already done so, add your fish. Acclimate them to the water in your tank before doing so.

Start to regularly test the water for ammonia and nitrite. At least daily. Depending on your bioload you could start to see ammonia quite quickly. Nitrite will likely take a little longer to appear.

Your target should be to keep ammonia + nitrite combined no higher than 0.5ppm by changing water whenever your water parameters exceed this target. 0.5ppm combined is a level of waste that is sufficient for your cycle to establish but relatively safe for your fish.

If you see 0.5ppm ammonia and 0.0ppm nitrite (0.5ppm combined) then leave things be. If you see 0.5ppm ammonia and 0.25ppm nitrite (0.75ppm combined) then change 1/3 of the water. If you see 0.25ppm ammonia and 0.75ppm nitrite (1.0ppm combined) then change 1/2 the water. If water parameters get worse than these levels it may require multiple daily 50% water changes to maintain safe water conditions. This is more likely to happen with a fully stocked tank.

Remember to add water conditioner whenever you put tap water in the tank.

Over time the frequency of water changes and amount you need to change to maintain your ammonia + nitrite combined target will reduce. You can also start testing for nitrate and should see this rising. If you are finding the ammonia and nitrite in your tests are consistently low, and you aren’t already fully stocked, you can add a few more fish. It may take a few weeks to get to this point.

Once you add a few more fish, continue to regularly test the water and continue to change water if you exceed the 0.5ppm combined ammonia + nitrite target. With added bioload the frequency of water changes and amount you need to change may increase again until your cycle has caught up. Again once you are consistently seeing low ammonia and nitrite you can add some more fish. Rinse and repeat with testing, water changes, and adding fish when safe to do so until you are fully stocked.

You can then cut back on water changes to control nitrate only. Typically you want to keep nitrate no higher than 40ppm, but I would recommend changing some water every 2 weeks even if your water test says you don’t need to.

A fish in cycle from an empty tank to fully stocked can take several months.

A good way to speed up this process would be to put a small amount of filter media from an established filter into your filter, or get a sponge from an established filter and squeeze it into your tank water. Perhaps you have a friend who keeps fish who could let you have some? This will seed your filter with the bacteria you are trying to grow and speed up the process.

Another option is bottled bacteria like Dr Tims One + Only or Tetra Safestart. These products wont instantly cycle a tank as they claim but in a similar manner to adding established filter media they can seed your filter with the bacteria you are trying to grow to establish your cycle. These products are hit and miss as to whether they work at all, but are an option if established filter media isnt obtainable and may speed up the process from several months to several weeks.

 

[ddp_58]

So right now I should just do consistent water changed and I am not able to obtain and established sponge filter from another fish tank so can I just use API QuickStart and poor it in every time I do a water change.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Do water changes as required by your water tests as per the instructions.

If you have any quickstart left over from what you have already bought then may as well use it up. You might be doing daily water changes for weeks, so dosing quickstart every day could get expensive and may not achieve anything. Its up to you if you want to spend the money or not. You have already dosed it into the tank and it didnt establish, so no reason to suspect adding more and more will be of benefit to you. Adding more wont hurt anything though if you have the money.

 

[ddp_58]

Should I just return all the fish to the pet store then do a fish less cycle?

 

[Aiken Drum]

I wouldnt, but again its up to you. I cant make decisions for you.

Fishless cycle gets complicated, people get frustrated, it doesnt go as they think it should, you will likely be sat looking at an empty tank for 2 to 3 months. A lot of traffic on this forum is people not being able to do a fishless cycle.

Fish in is relatively safe if done properly.

But if you change your mind.

 

[Aiken Drum]

To cycle a tank you need to grow denitrifying bacteria to consume ammonia and nitrite that your tank produces. The bacteria needs an ammonia source to grow colonies sufficient in size to consume all the ammonia and resultant nitrite and turn it into nitrate which typically you remove through your regular water changes.

A fishless cycle uses an ammonia source to replicate the fish waste that a tank of fish would produce. This ammonia source can be pure ammonia, an aquarium specific ammonium chloride product like Dr Tims Ammonium Chloride, a cocktail shrimp or fish food.

Ill assume we are using an ammonium chloride product.

Set up your tank. Make sure everything is running smoothly. Make sure you have used a water conditioner product with any tap water you have put in your tank. If you have an adjustable heater raise the temperature to 28c/82.5f.

You should have a test kit. Preferably a liquid test kit. It should test for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

Dose the ammonia chloride to approx 4ppm and start testing daily for ammonia. Once your ammonia drops below 1ppm redose it back to 2ppm. This may take a couple of weeks.

Start to test daily for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Whenever your ammonia drops below 1ppm redose it back to 2ppm.

You should start to see nitrite and possibly nitrate in your daily tests. Over time your nitrite should start to rise and the amount of ammonia should start to drop further. Your ammonia may start to not be detectable in your daily tests. Keep redosing ammonia daily if you see it below 1ppm. Your nitrite may rise off the testing chart. I prefer to keep nitrite within measurable levels so it shouldn’t hurt to do a water change to keep readings on the chart. Remember to add water conditioner whenever you put tap water in the tank. Nitrate should appear in your water test at some point too.

Over time your nitrite should level off and begin to fall in a similar manner to what your ammonia tests did. When you are able to dose ammonia to 2ppm and 24 hours later see 0 ammonia and nitrite you are cycled. At this point you have enough denitrifying bacteria to consume all the ammonia and nitrite of a moderately stocked tank. You may want to continue dosing ammonia for a few days to make sure it continues to consume all the ammonia and nitrite and be sure your cycle has properly established before proceeding.

Your nitrate will likely be very high. Do a big water change to get nitrate down. Preferably below 10ppm. Adjust your temperature to the needs of your fish. Get your fish, acclimate and add to your tank. I would advise stocking lightly to start with and slowly adding fish until fully stocked.

A fishless cycle typically takes 6 to 8 weeks.

A good way to speed up this process would be to put a small amount of filter media from an established filter into your filter, or get a sponge from an established filter and squeeze it into your tank water. Perhaps you have a friend who keeps fish who could let you have some? This will seed your filter with the bacteria you are trying to grow and speed up the process.

Another option is bottled bacteria like Dr Tims One + Only or Tetra Safestart. These products wont instantly cycle a tank as they claim but in a similar manner to adding established filter media they can seed your filter with the bacteria you are trying to grow to establish your cycle. These products are hit and miss as to whether they work at all, but are an option if established filter media isnt obtainable and may speed up the process from several months to several weeks.

 

[ddp_58]

Can I do a fish in cycle and use Seachem Prime everyday to control ammonia levels.

 

[Aiken Drum]

I mention seachem prime in my fish in cycle process. While prime will control ammonia to a degree, you shouldn't rely on it 100%. Do your water changes, keep ammonia at relatively safe levels, Prime is just a safety net.