New to angelfish and tropical types.

[aisforangelfish]

I am very new to this forum. All of my aquarium experience has been with large fancy goldfish in very large unheated tanks. I now have a 55g tropical tank with an undergravel filter, powerheads, and a medium sized submersible filter as well. Sadly I have everything but a heater which I am buying next payday. The fish I have are doing well now that I've treated for a small fungus outbreak. API fungus cure did the trick.

The two questions I have at this point are: How stocked should my 55 g be? I always provided at least ten g or more for my fancies but I know angelfish can get pretty big too. The fish I have so far are a two inch tall angel, eight swordtails ranging from mature adult to very small, four serpae tetras, and one lyretail mollie. All are doing great now but sometimes the tank looks a little empty still. I have heard 1" of fish per gal but couldn't my angel get pretty large over time? Is this all the fish I have room for or would it be a good idea to collect a few more angels?

My other question is about my angel who continually hides. I have lots of rocks and one really big plant that spreads out over a good half the tank, some rocks are propped up together to make lots of caves but I worry that he likes these hiding places too much and that if he's distressed or gets sick I might not notice right away not to mention I would like to see him swim about. Maybe some other angels would make him more comfortable to come out?

Sorry if these questions are silly, but his hiding does stress me out. Thanks in advance!

 

[Jason7894561230]

One i would be very careful with the Angels, i congragulate you on getting two but they can still get very aggresive towards smaller fish (tetras), You could put a rubberlip bristlenose pleco in (they stay small) Or maybe some cories but those angels are going to get big!
Two No dont worry if you angel is hiding this means he is just shy and will grow to love you. But if he's eating and everything than dont worry. But please get a heater as soon as possible!

 

[aisforangelfish]

Yeah the heater I had broke of course. It was a cheaper one anyway. I'll have a heater soon enough and I redecorated the tank a little bit to provide a few options for the angels so they aren't obligated to one hiding place. So far the only fish the angels have picked on were the neons I tried to put in there at the beginning. I thought since it was a bigger tank it would work but I had to return them to the LFS. All of my angel's tankmates are a fairly good size and he hasn't even nipped at any of them like I was expecting so we shall see. Thanks for the great advice!

 

[HN1]

Welcome to AA!

Firstly, forget that you ever heard the 1" per gallon thing.

Angels are great fish, full of personality, and fun to watch. They will prey on fish that they can fit in their mouths, but are fine with larger bodied tetra. Avoid torpedo shaped fish with them. They can get aggresive towards eachother as they get larger if they are not paired. A pair would work fine in a 55, but the tank will be fully stocked (IMO) when the swordtails are mature. Fully grown swordtails are pretty impressive in their size!

 

[Jason7894561230]

+1 for the 1" per gallon (DESTROY!)

 

[aisforangelfish]

My poor beautiful angelfish died last night. I don't know if it was because in the process of feeding all the swords she got overfed and developed a swim bladder disorder or if the other fish in the tank stressed her to death but she was facing upwards a lot toward the end and acting a tad listless. Water parameters and a brief look-over of the dead fish didn't point to any suspects. As I noticed she wasn't feeling good I put her in a plastic isolation thingy that hangs inside the tank and has vents to the rest of the tank. This helped keep any other curious fish from picking on her but she died. I guess I just want reassurance that angelfish aren't a bad idea for this tank. Are the swordtails to fast moving for the angelfish? Is my tank not densely decorated enough for angelfish? Did I just overfeed the poor thing? Thanks guys you're the greatest!
-Adam

 

[HN1]

Sorry for the loss.

I should have asked, how long has the tank been running? Do you know about the nitrogen cycle? Do you test your water? What maintenance schedule are you on?

Sorry for all the questions, there will probably be more, but I want to give the best info possible. The good news is that your tank is (or will be) fine for an angelfish. Let's try to figure out what happened (if anything) before you add any more fish.

 

[aisforangelfish]

So the story goes...I had a 55g in storage that was a gift a couple years ago. The man who gave it to me was getting overrun with swordtails so he asked about the tank. I got it out of storage about a month ago and set it up. With my fair knowledge of the nitrogen cycle I still made the poor decision to take the school of 10 swordtails all at once into my newly set up aquarium. Everything was going foolproof and I was still not even showing ammonia on my tests after four days to a week so I added some more fish thinking I was going to help the tank begin to cycle and partially being impatient and cocky. I added a few more fish until after four or five weeks I had a good 16 fish or so. I also had to treat for fungus with API fungus cure about two weeks ago. I also think the ammonia test kit I was using was outdated or expired because it never showed ammonia so I got a new test kit, and have yet to see the ammonia.

Another problem too is that I'm so paranoid about my water chem that I have been changing the water about every 3-4 days because I know I added fish too fast and I know that there must be ammonia in my tank that I can't detect. I just got the new ammonia test kit and coincidentally I had changed the water recently too so tonight or tomorrow I imagine there will start to be a small buildup of ammonia. I keep waiting for this spike that hasn't seemed to happen yet. Oh and my water changes are 25-50% depending on how scary the situation. When I was trying to flush out that medicine after the fish were well I was doing 50%'s but usually try to do 25%.

The death of the angelfish I have a feeling could be related to my feeding habit as well. The guy who gave me the ten swords said he sometimes feeds three times a day. I used to only feed once but the swords did look fat and healthy so I fed at least once in the morning and once at night. The angelfish may have eaten too much.

Alternatively, it could be that because I don't have a heater and have been changing my water so regularly that the angelfish was stressed due to temperature changes but I was very careful to feel the tank water and match it with my bathtub faucet. I really really really would love to try angelfish again though. Definitely need a heater and a stable cycle first. It was interesting that whatever killed the angelfish didn't bother the tiniest sword which was about a 1/4" or the small serpae tetras. Any other ideas are greatly appreciated! Thanks HN1 and Jason7894561230!

 

[HN1]

You are right that you need a stable cycle and a heater, but you're doing more right than you give yourself credit for and with a change or two, will have an angel friendly tank in no time. Changing water doesn't inhibit your cycle and is the best course to keep toxins down and fish alive in a non-cycled tank. So definite kudos there. Temp matching your new water within a few degrees is a must. Fish are fine through more temp fluctuations than we tend to give them credit for IMO, so I don't think that did it though.

Ignore the title on the thread below, you obviously know more than most "newbies", but I think the info is relative and I don't want to retype.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...-but-i-already-have-fish-what-now-116287.html

And there are always weaker fish out there that may succomb to much less than strong, healthy fish would.

 

[aisforangelfish]

I guess my question now is how much ammonia should be tolerated? I've been trying to keep it under .25 Does that sound about right?

 

[HN1]

I guess my question now is how much ammonia should be tolerated? I've been trying to keep it under .25 Does that sound about right?

That sounds exactly right. Zero is the goal and will happen eventually unless something is changed, but < .25 will keep the fish healthy.