New to it... having problems!!!

[JamesShall]

Hello! i'm new to this fish thing, but I thought I had done all the research I needed to get the tank up and running. Now I'm having problems and I'm out of ideas. Please help!

My set up -
tall (about 3 feet tall) 75 gallon tank.
Penguin 330 biowheel filter
heater set to 78~80 F
Rocks and artificial plants and coral (wife thought the coral was pretty)

I obtained this tank for free. A coworker gave it away! I took it home and cleaned it out with vinegar to get the limescale and junk out of it. I hosed it out as best as I could and then resealed it with aquarium sealer (silicone).

I let this sit for about a week and then brought in inside and filled it up with water. I put in the filter and heater and ran the filter for about 2 weeks. After that, I ran the heater for about 2 days along with treating the water with Stress Coat, aquarium salt, Ph 7.0 powder, and Ammo-lock 2. Inside the 330 filter there are 2 media baskets that I filled with carbon chips with ammonia reducing media mixed in (I forget the name of that product). and went off to the store to get some fish!

I came home with 4 tiger barbs, 2 red tail sharks, a catfish, a blue lobster, and 2 rainbow fish (forgot their name... wife thought they were pretty).

The water was clear, fish and lobster were very active, and everything seemed good. The next day, one of the red tail sharks disappeared. All the fish I bought were small and nothing could have eaten it all at once. The catfish might have been able to gobble it up in about 3 bites, but I don't think that was the case, but I'll never know.

About 4 days into it, I noticed the water was starting to get hazy looking. It seemed like there was a white cloud building in the tank. From what I read on the internet, this is normal as there is bacteria in the tank that is growing. Apparently in new tanks this bacteria growth is so significant that it's visable.

After about 2 weeks the seemingly healthy catfish died. For about 3 days before it died, it was hanging out in one corner of the tank swimming from the top to the bottom all day long. I thought it was weird, but I had no clue why it was doing this. I thought it just found a place to be comfortable and that was that.

I removed the cover from the tank to retrieve the catfish and noticed that the water was beginning to smell. I replaced the carbon media in both baskets. A day or two later I noticed that my filter was starting to show signs of the media cartriges being clogged. I changed out both catridges.
A few days later the lobster died as well as a tiger barb.

One of the tiger barbs seems to stay at the top of the tank breathing irregularly gasping for air. Something is wrong. I didn't know if the lobster would make it or not, but I was sure that the catfish would have survived.

I went out and purchased 5 in 1 water test strips and a tank cleaner. I tested the water and found the nitrites off the scale failing miserably. The Ph was up at about 8, hard water, alkalinity was high and nitrates were barely acceptable. All of this was not a suprise to me.

I withdrew about 1/3 of the water from the tank as well as sucking up a lot of waste and stuff from the rocks. I replaced the water with some Stress Coat, Ammo-lock2, Ph balancing powder, and aquarium salt. I removed the carbon/ammonia media from both filter baskets and replaced one with new media and the other with a Water Softener Pillow.

Some of the white haze in the tank seemed to go away. After a day my water tests showed to be much better as the nitrites were now readable on the scale, but still failing - 10.0. The nitrates also remained high, but just over failing. The Ph dropped to 7.6 and the hardness went down to just Hard - not Very Hard. Alkalinity was now passing. I let this go for a week and monitored it. The hardness remained hard (even with recharging the pillow 2 times) and the nitrites dropped to 8.0, but were still at the top of the scale. Everything else looked to be within decent numbers. Nitrates were still higher than I wanted them, but atleast they weren't at the top of the failing scale.

Two days ago I changed 1/3 of the water again. I put the same stuff into the new water just as I had for the last water change. The white haze still remains.

Yesterday, my water test showed the nitrites going super high - 10.0 or more (that the highest reading on the test strip). Water is just as hazy as ever.

Today another one of the tiger barbs died and I still have that super high nitrite level. The rest of the fish aren't super active. Occassionally they bolt around in the tank, but mostly they just hang out. They were more active after the fist water change. Something is wrong with the water again.


Any ideas? Am I missing something? Am I just in a really harsh cycle? Do I "need" to get a powerhead and maybe an air stone for this setup? I was planning to get both of those items after cycle so I wouldn't add stress to the fish... maybe I'm wrong and should get them NOW?

Thanks for any and all replies!

 

[loganj]

To begin with, I think you overstocked the tank. Once the tank has cycled, it would probably handle that fish load with no problem. What are your ammonia readings? Since you have added Ammo Lock, you'll have to get a salicylate based ammonia test kit. The usual FW kits use a nessler reagent and the ammo lock will cause a false reading with them. I don't trust the dip strip tests as I have found them not to be accurate. I would recommend the Aquarium Pharaceuticals kits. You'll want the ammonia kit with two reagents...the one with the single bottle is nessler and won't work for you. Hazy water is often a sign of high ammonia. Since ammonia burns the gill membranes of the fish, that accounts for them gasping at the surface. Nitrite will inhibit their bloods ability to carry oxygen and will cause them to gasp at the surface as well. Your tank is very much still in the cycle and you're going to have to do daily water changes to control the ammonia/nitrite levels until the bacterial growth can catch up. Had you used the fishless cycling method, you could just let it sit there until the levels had zeroed out.
I expect that the lobster ate the missing redtail. The rainbows will do fine in hard alkaline water...the rest of them will need some acclimation to it. Be sure to research the water preferences of a fish before you buy. You'll find that many of them prefer soft, acidic water. The coral you have in the tank will tend to drive pH and hardness up as it dissolves. If you want to maintain a pH lower than about 8, I would remove this from the tank. Also, I need to caution you about using the pH altering chemicals. The best environment for your fish, even if it isn't the type water they prefer, is a stable one. The danger with using chemicals to alter pH is that you can get a yo-yo effect with the pH bouncing up and down. That will seriously stress your fish and open the door for disease. One final note...you may want to increase your filtration if you're going to have a heavy bio load in this tank...I'm not sure the 330 will be enough for a 75g tank. What are the measurements of the tank? Measure it and multiply the LxWxH and divide by 231. That will give you a very close idea what size it is. The reason I say that is I can't remember ever having seen a 75g tank that was 3' long. You can get a 45 tall that is 3' long and I wonder if that's what you have.
Welcome to AA.com!

 

[QTOFFER]

Hi JamesShall. I'm not quite the expert yet, but I can address some of your problems until some more experienced members chime in.

First, I have read that lobsters can maim, kill, and eat slow-moving fish. I'll bet that is what happened to your shark.

Also, the whitish haze is as you stated, a bacterial bloom. However, it is not the good becteria that convert ammonia to nitrites to nitrates. It's a heterotrophic bloom called new tank syndrome and is an indicative of an uncycled tank. The beneficial bacteria will not be visible - it lives in a thin coating on the surfaces in your tank and in your filter.

It seems that you have hard, alkaline water. If you buy your fish locally, chances are, they are already adapted to your water. No need to fidddle with the water chemistry, IMO. By adding aquarium salt and pH buffers, you are only making matters worse. These additives increase the hardness of the water and introduce phosphates: food for your heterotrophic bacterial bloom.

Ammolock has its uses, but not in your case. These ammonia binding products do just that: bind ammonia. Eventually, they break down and release the ammonia back into the water. They also raise the hardness of the water. Plus, they do nothing for nitrites which are just as toxic as ammonia. The best way to remove ammonia and nitrites is by cycling the tank.

I would remove the coral since it slowly dissolves in the water and raises both hardness and pH. Get some plastic resin corals if you like them - they are indistinguishable from the real thing!

Also, be aware that a tall tank is going to have less water surface area for gas exchange, and hence less oxygenation than a regular tank of similar volume. I'm guessing that your tank is 24 x 20 x 36 (w x d x h) and that your water surface area is 480 square inches. By comparison, my 36 x 18 x 24 (w x d x h) 58 gallon has a surface area of 648 sq in, and as a result can handle more fish than your 75 - believe it or not! Make sure that you have some major surface agitation going on - I would get the powerhead and airstone sooner than later.

Your fish show signs of ammonia/nitrite poisoning and perhaps oxygen deprivation. I would do a 50% water change ASAP and add some BioSpira, a commercially available culture of beneficial amquarium bacteria). Then, do 30% water changes every other day and test your water daily. When your ammonia and nitrites are 0 for three consecutive days, the tank is cycled.

Good luck!

BTW, a tall tank, IMO is just begging to be stocked with angelfish - consider it, but be aware that tiger barbs and angels don't mix.

 

[QTOFFER]

I removed the cover from the tank to retrieve the catfish and noticed that the water was beginning to smell. I replaced the carbon media in both baskets. A day or two later I noticed that my filter was starting to show signs of the media cartriges being clogged. I changed out both catridges.

One other thing, does your filter have a pad to trap large debris - or a sponge on the intake? Without it, the media baskets can get clogged pretty fast.

A healthy tank will have a very understated rich earthy smell - like freshly turned topsoil. Anything sour,very sweet, or fishy suggests the presence of rotting organic material - and that's not good.

 

[JamesShall]

Ok-ok!

So no more ammo lock?

I read that the haze I have is from high ammonia levels and that in turn gives me the high nitrite level that I do have. I was using the Ammo-Lock in hope to lower the ammonia level. That's also why I'm running the ammo-carb media in the filter baskets.

Should I add anything to the tap water? At the moment I don't have any tap water conditioner. I thought I was in the safe by adding the Stress Coat and Ammo-Lock. Will the Stress Coat be enough? I will test my tap water tonight as well as test my tank water and I'll post up some numbers in the morning.

I was under the impression that daily water changes were bad because it would take out all the growing bacteria in only a few days. Maybe this is where I am going wrong. I will start the daily changes and see what happens.

I'll will pcik up the air pump this week - thanks for the info! I read that the bio-wheels do airrate the water to some extent, but I guess they don't do as much as I need.

The biowheel I have has 2 wheels. It has two cartridges and also 2 baskets. The intake tube has a basket looking thing at the end of it too keep rocks and fish out. When I cleaned it this last time it had a large food flake sticking to it.

How many fish would be appropriate to start a 75g tank? I have read about other people using aroung 10 fish that are about the same size mine are. I don't think it's overpopulated, but I'm not sure. I'm down to 2 tiger barbs, the red tail shark and the 2 rainbow things (I need to get the correct name for them tonight).

OH - another thing - I know that the bio wheel should be set on full flow as the tank cycles. The wheels are rolling over non-stop. After the cycle completes and I add more fish should I leave the wheel on full blast or should I slow the flow down some?

 

[Endgame319]

I'm not really an expert but I see you've made a few mistakes. First, get something to remove the chlorine and chloramine from your water before adding it too the tank, try and find one that ONLY removes the chlorine and chloramine and doesnt stress coat or anything else. I totally agree with QTOFFER when he says not to mess with the water chemistry by adding aquarium salt and ph balancer. And try to avoid changing filter media - this is where all the good bacteria live, so If you have to clean it, just rinse it in aquarium water.

The load in there right now is quite small and may not be enough to fully cycle the tank, so you may find yourself in a mini-cycle when you get more fish. You can either wait untill the tank stablizes or add a couple more hardy fish(I highly recommend zebra danios).

I wouldn't worry too much about your ph unless it gets higher than it is now, most aquarium fish can adapt to higher ph so it shouldn't be much of a problem.

Hopefully Allivymar can help you out, shes the cycling guru around here.

 

[loganj]

The tank is not overpopulated...I just think you added a few more than you should have at first. That accounts for the rapid rise in ammonia/nitrite levels. Also, feed them very sparingly right now. You don't want to add any more organics to the water than you have to. Also, as mentioned above, you'll need to get something that removes chlorine and chloramine. I use a product called Genesis that works quite will. Kent Chlorinex is another good one. The Stress Coat will add stuff to the water that will likely fuel a bacterial bloom later. As long as you add fish slowly, after the cycle completes, you shouldn't have any trouble. I wouldn't add more than 3 small fish every two weeks. Also, again IMO, you won't disturb yor cycle by doing small daily water changes. If you don't keep the nitrites down, you'll lose all your fish. What are the measurements of your tank?

 

[Kwenbee]

I, too, have had an execution tank for the past few months and have finally gotten the hang of it. It sounds like you did EXACTLY what I did.

I took the advice of the all knowing Allivymar on this board during my fish killing incidents back in November....here's her advice to me and it worked:

First of all, bag the chemicals. They cause more problems than they help. Go buy a liquid four-in-one chemical test kit (mine is the one mentioned in above post -- Doc Wellfish is what it says on the testtube, but it's that Aquarium Pharmaceticals). It's in a green box and it tests for ammonia, nitrites, pH, and hardness. It also has a special card for those with very high pH levels.

I tested my tank every morning. I had ammonia levels of 3.0 for about three weeks (thought I'd see a green test tube for the rest of my life). Then the ammonia dropped to 0 and the nitrites went from .25 to 2.0 overnight. They stayed at 2.0 for about three weeks before dropping to 0. Keep in mind, I checked the water EVERY DAY and did a 25% water change EVERY DAY. I kind of scooched the gravel around in different areas every day, getting some of the big gunk out of the gravel, but I didn't vacuum ALL the gravel every day.

I am now testing once a week and water changing once a week. We've got an algae bloom that is now clearing up on it's own, and our fish losses have dropped considerably (except for three we bought at Walmart last Monday...a mistake I won't make again!)

Since you've done the ammo-lock, I don't know what you can do about the ammonia levels that will show. I would assume that the more water changes you do, the more ammo-lock you will remove, and the more accurate your reading will be.

I've also read that tall tanks are harder to maintain and you have to be careful what fish you put in them. I thought it had something to do with the pressure of the water at the bottom of the tank, but it makes more sense that the surface of the tank is smaller.

Our guys are doing very well now...they seem very active and normal. Also, please heed the warning of those on here when they talk about overstocking...I didn't and some of our poor fish paid the price. We've now gone from 10 fish in our 10 gallon to 7, which is a more manageable bioload.

I can guarantee that Alli is going to tell you what I just did. I can tell you it worked for me.

 

[JamesShall]

Ahhhh!

I changed out 25% of the water last night and things picked up. The water is a bit clearer and the fish seemed a little more active and DEFINITELY ate more this morning. I had done a 50% change 2 days ago so I on the schedule for daily changes. I touched on about 1/4 of the rocks to pull up whatever junk was left down there, but I didn't go all over the tank as people here suggest that is a bad idea to do anyway.

I didn't have any specific cholorine/chomorimine remover so I used the stress coat which claims to take care of it.

"Instantly removes chlorine and chloramines, making tap water safe for fish. Neutralizes heavy metals. Also, replaces the natural slime coating fish need in times of stress, such as handling, shipping or fighting. Contains Aloe Vera, nature's liquid bandage, to prevent the loss of essential electrolytes and protect damaged tissue against disease-causing organisms. Helps heal torn fins and skin wounds. Use when setting up aquarium, changing water, or adding fish. "

I forgot to bring the test results with me so all i have to go by is what I remember.

I tested the water before the change and then again this morning. I also tested the tap water to give me a baseline of what I'm putting in there.

My nitrite numbers came down dramatically. Yesterday they were WAY up over the 10.0 that the stick measures to and this morning they were down to 4.0. The pH was 6.8 and the tap water is 7.2. This morning the tank water read 7.0. Hardness went up a bit, but not much. The alkalinity seems to also have jumped a bit, but I will monitor that to see where it leads.

I will finish using what's left in the stick tests before I go get the other type of test kit.

The tank is 36" wide, 31" tall, and 15" deep. The lady I got it from said it's a "show tank". I did the calculation and it comes out to about 72 gallons.

I had some thoughts about how I shoudl go about adding air into the water. I am thinking about either getting an airpump with an air curtain because I think they look cool OR I am thinking about a powerhead with the little snorkle on top to suck in some air. I am leaning towards the power head because it also adds another form of fitration and another place for bacterias to grow. Any comments on this?

 

[QTOFFER]

I changed out 25% of the water last night and things picked up. The water is a bit clearer and the fish seemed a little more active and DEFINITELY ate more this morning.

Great to hear! Adding water to an aquarium is to the fish what opening a window in a hot stuffy room is to us - it can really invigorate them.
Don't add any more fish for the moment, go easy on the feeding, and keep a close eye on the ammonia and nitrite readings. With frequent water changes, your tank should cycle without any more fish losses.

The tank is 36" wide, 31" tall, and 15" deep. The lady I got it from said it's a "show tank". I did the calculation and it comes out to about 72 gallons.

Please disregard what I said about your surface area and oxygenation issues. Tou have a standard show tank, not a tall one. Is it a 72 gal bowfront? Those tanks look REAL nice when finally setup.

As for aeration, you want anything that will disrupt the water surface. Either of your suggestions would do the job.

 

[ScottS]

Once the tank is cycled, and you start replacing fish, don't replace the missing red-tail black shark. They're a bit feisty and territorial, and really don't like their own kind. It just gets worse as they age.

If your catfish was a Corydoras and you replace it, make sure you buy a group of them. They are much happier, and much more interesting to watch in a group. Good luck, and keep up the water changes until everything zeros out.

As for filter cleaning, since valuable bacteria are living there, rinse them with water you've changed out and replace them in the filter. You also noted that you thought water changes would slow the cycle. When you do a fishless cycle, you'll not want to do changes. Since you have fish, you need to do the changes, which indeed takes longer, but helps the fish.

Lastly, if you didn't already take the advice first offered, get the coral out of your tank.

Best of luck!

 

[JamesShall]

I'm pretty sure that the coral can be removed without my wife getting too upset

I'm not even sure if this coral is real or not - I bought it at a Petco.

I would much rather have a few "nicer" ones that drsfosterssmith carries which I will buy when I order the powerhead or the pump.

Thanks for the help! I'll try posting up some pictures when the water clears and the cycle is done!

 

[QTOFFER]

I'm pretty sure that the coral can be removed without my wife getting too upset

At my lfs, I've seen some exquisitely crafted artificial corals made of aquarium-safe resin. The hand-painted colors are so lifelike! I'm sure the selection and price is even better on the net.

I'd get one myself, but it would not go with my Amazon biotope theme.

 

[JamesShall]

Success??

UPDATE - I checked my levels again this morning and I am having a hard time believing what I read.

Three days ago I did a 50% change with cloudy water and I added a bunch of unecessay additives to the change water.

2 days ago I joined this forum, went home and did a 25% change with nothing more than adding some Stress Coat to the replacment water.

Yesterday morning the water looked about 1/2 as cloudy as it did 3 days ago and my water readings were definitely much healthier. When I went home after work the water was notably CLEAR! Nitrites were MUCH lower, but still not zero.

This morning - CLEAR water and nitrites are super close to zero (it might be zero as I'm using test sticks and they are kinda hard to read precisely)! All other tests were looking good too!

I have been running this tank for over a month without any signs of success like this!

I followed a link in a different post and found this chart -

Question - my nitrites are down, but my nitrates seem to have creeped up. Is that normal? According to that chart I might be cycled or really close to it?

I know I have to get the same zero nitrite reading for atleast 3 days in a row (crossing my fingers!) so I'm not planning on another 25% water change unless my nitrites creep up again. Does that sound like a good idea?

I'm planning to wait 2 weeks after the cycle shows to be completed before I add more creatures. I think that should be safe since all my testing was done using stick test strips.



I haven't pulled that coral thing out yet - I will do that tonight. I don't think it's doing any harm at the moment, but JUST IN CASE it starts to deteriorate later on I want to avoid all that!

 

[Allivymar]

*grins*

I haven't popped in before as I haven't needed to; the other folks have given you all the advice I would have LOL there was no point!

It sure sounds like you're nearing the end of the cycle; when ammonia and nitrites reach zero, and nitrates are registering, the tank is usually cycled. As it can take anywhere from 2 -6 weeks to cycle a tank, you're right on track. Amazing what fresh clean treated water, and a lack of other chemicals can do eh?

 

[QTOFFER]

YAY!

Sounds like you are almost cycled! Isn't this website fantastic!!!

Nitrates are the last thing to appear. How's your ammonia reading? You want that to be 0 also - the good bacteria will eat the ammonia as fast as your fish produce it. If your ammonia and nitrites stay at 0 through the weekend, you're golden!

Thereafter, you'll just have to do partial water changes to get rid of the nitrates and dissolved organic contaminants. Most people will agree that 20 - 40 ppm nitrate signals a need for a water change.

To give you some idea of the frequency, I change 25% in my 58 gallon once a week and never see nitrates above 10 ppm. It's probably a bit overkill, but the fish love it...aaahhhhhh, clean, fresh water!

 

[foxtrot1027]

Def. agree with getting rid of the coral as it will dissolve into the freshwater. Same thing also can happen with sea shells.

 

[wxboilermaker]

I agree with all that's been said. I know it's hard to wait for the tank to cycle until you add more fish, but patience young grasshopper. I would keep only what fish you still have in the tank and do the daily water changes. Also use de-chlor to detox your water. Not stress coat. If you add too much stresscoat (by treating water with it) it makes for a lovely mess on the surface of your water. Learned that the hard way

The one recommendation I will make is to run a zeolite carbon blend in your media baskets. Zeolite is a crystalline material that through ion exchange traps ammonia and releases sodium. So running some zeolite will help pull out some ammonia and soften the water a little bit. And unlike Ammolok, it wont rerelease the ammonia unless sodium concentrations become higher then ammonia concentrations around the media. It's an equilibrium thing. I've been using a small about of zeo in my tank and it's helped keep the ammonia from taking drastic turns. The other very important thing......DON'T CHANGE YOUR FILTER SPONGE. You'd be surprised how much bacteria grows there. If you get a ton of crud on it, then rinse it off with water you pulled during a water change. If you must replace it, then try to run both the new and the old together for a while to let the new one colonize. This is just for the sponge thing/ bio wheel (if you have it). Charcoal and zeolite needs to be changed weekly or so depending on the clarity of your water.

The one thing I would consider with the power head is the amount of current in the tank. Power heads can add a bit of current. Some fish, especial those with long flowing fins (IE angel fish) don't like current, while others absolutely love it. So just keep your fish plans in mind when choosing.

 

[Kwenbee]

When you say Stress Coat can leave a "yucky mess" on the surface of your water, what exactly do you mean?

We added a corydoras catfish to our betta tank on Saturday. It's a 5 gallon tank. The guy at Petsmart said he added some stresscoat to the bag. He put the bag with the fish upside down inside another plastic bag to be sure the cat didn't get caught in the creases (it was very, very cold on Saturday, so I was going to keep the bag covered for heat).

I did the standard float the bag in the aquarium when we got home. I pulled the bag with the fish out of the other bag. There was some liquid in the outer bag, but I assumed it was from a bit of the water with the cat in it leaking out since it was upside down.

Now, our five gallon has some sort of disgusting looking "skim" on the top. It's not the food because our betta only eats those little betta pellet things (tried other foods...he won't eat it). The catfish has been getting those quicksink tablets by Tetramin. We've used both types of foods in both our other tanks and never had this stuff.

The skim is a whitish looking film, heavier than the water, with occasional bubbles in the corners. It looks kind of like when you put your finger in a bowl of water after lathering up with hand lotion.

The tank is fairly new, so I'm still cycling it. Today the ammonia was 1.0 and the nitrites were about .50, but I am doing daily water changes to bring them down.

Could it be the guy at Petsmart gave me excess stress coat and that's what's filming up the top of this tank? If that's the case, what should I do? The betta is actually doing MUCH better...he's eating like a pig (he used to not eat a lot), so I guess he DID need a bigger tank. The cory is fairly shy and hides a lot...drives my daughter nuts cuz she can't find her.

 

[miklordm]

I was wondering what that stuff was!!! I, too, was using Stress Coat like it was going out of style while trying to cycle my tank and I have that filmy white mess floating on the surface. That must be what it is. I'm with Kwenbee. I'd like to know how to get rid of it if there's a way. It's nasty!!