pH Down - German Blue Rams

[wildderrick]

I have a 20gal Long tank at my office at work. Gravel substrate as well as white play sand, Malaysian drift wood and artificial plants. Currently, the tank is stocked with neon tetras, julii corydoras, and bristlenose pleco.

I want to add a pair of German Blue Rams, but the pH of the tap water at the office is 8.3. dGH is ~10 and dKH is ~4. I've already been slowly trying to adjust the pH by adding pH down to the refill water when I do a water change (once a week). After 2 water changes, 6 gallons each, I've brought the tank pH down from ~7.8 (buffered by the drift wood alone) to maybe 7.5... I think... These color charts are really hard to judge... The API pH test clearly shows 7.6, and the high range pH clearly shows 7.4. Both at the extreme ends of the scale. Not sure what this means.

I don't want to bounce the pH around and kill my fish, and I'm not interested in investing in a fancy water filter. So, my question is: Should I continue trying to use pH down as I am to get the pH to ~6.5, where the German Blue Rams will be happy? Or, do I give up on trying to get the pH that low and settle for a fish that is happy at my current levels?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Brookster123]

I don't think rams are really in the cards.. Messing with the ph that much will do much more harm than good. IMO..

 

[fishyfriends3]

I'd stop adjusting as you can end up crashing your tank. Have a look at Bolivian rams instead.

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Brookster123]

I'd stop adjusting as you can end up crashing your tank. Have a look at Bolivian rams instead. Sent from my GT-I9195 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

good call!!!!!

 

[threnjen]

I personally am not seeing the problem here with the pH. I keep a German Blue Ram in pH 7.5 and it's happy, healthy and active.
A good pH is a STABLE pH.
HOWEVER the German Blue Ram is a soft water fish and that is a different issue entirely.

Time for another Thren lecture You guys ready for my new topic?

OK so when a fish needs a low pH and "soft" water, what they are actually asking for is water with a low level of dissolved solids (TDS - Total Dissolved Solids).
From Myths of pH Shock
"Fish maintain their body fluid levels and release toxins via a process known as osmosis, also referred to, when used in a discussion of this process in fish, as osmoregulation. The function of this process is dependent upon the amount of Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) in the water"

Fish take in the water through their gills and the solids are processed through their kidneys.

So. A hard water fish is adapted to a high level of dissolved solids in the water. Their kidneys are well adapted through evolution to handle and process the solids, no problem. A soft water fish on the other hand is accustomed to an environment of very low TDS. Their kidneys are not equipped to process a high number of dissolved solids. In high TDS water their lifespan will be shortened due to the stress of osmoregulation. Basically, it's just really hard on their kidneys.

Lowering pH is usually a futile and pointless effort, because you're not lowering the TDS of your water which is the actual reason that "soft water" fish have trouble. Like you can lower your pH more with peat - but that's not removing your dissolved solids. A fish can adjust to a pH, but a fish can't adjust as WELL to TDS.

Raising pH is different because it often involves adding solids to the water. Baking soda, crushed coral, SEachem Equilibrium - all of these things increase the water pH and TDS at the same time.

tHat said, Op - your gH level is about 179ppm hardness. This isn't OUTRAGEOUS for a ram. They live in waters with very low dissolved solids, similar to an Angel, which is ok in water from 50-150 degrees TDS. However the gH test doesn't test for everything that could be in your water, so your TDS could be higher.
IF you really want a german blue ram (or just want a full read on your water chemistry) order one of these: HM Digital TDS-4 Pocket Size TDS Tester Meter Without Digital Thermometer, 0-9990 ppm Measurement Range, 1 ppm Resolution, +/- 2% Readout Accuracy - Amazon.com
The gH test only tests for calcium and magnesium. There are other solids in the water that could result in a higher TDS than your gH test returns.
I'd say if your TDS is below 200 a ram would *probably* do just fine (but I won't take responsibility!).

I keep my water at about 150TDS, for the record, and 7.5 pH. It goes as high as 175TDS after ferts. Also I won't pretend I've had the ram for long - it's only been about a month. It has never shown any signs of stress however and she even laid eggs last week (but she has no prince, the poor thing)

 

[Brookster123]

Threns at it again.. Booo beep booop I think that makes a lot of sense! I too keep a ram in softish water with a ph of 7.6, my Lfs guru simply told me they color up better in lower ph, which coincides with what you're saying.. I think.. Anyways he's happy and his colors are great! He needs a gf too! Hmmmmm, road trip!!!

 

[wildderrick]

I'd stop adjusting as you can end up crashing your tank. Have a look at Bolivian rams instead.

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

That's a GREAT suggestion. I hadn't considered that there might be something so similar!

The research I've done so far about pH all seems to scream, "DON'T DO IT!!!", but I'm curious if it's safer to do on a large tank as the larger volume would help stabilize pH swings.

Thanks to everyone for the responses. This is such a great resource!

 

[fishyfriends3]

Bolivians are awesome and ive found them to be much hardier than the butterfly rams.

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[threnjen]

Threns at it again.. Booo beep booop I think that makes a lot of sense! I too keep a ram in softish water with a ph of 7.6, my Lfs guru simply told me they color up better in lower ph, which coincides with what you're saying.. I think.. Anyways he's happy and his colors are great! He needs a gf too! Hmmmmm, road trip!!!

My poor Snow White (so named since she laid eggs and then waited and waited for a man) really needs a prince! I feel bad now that I didn't get a bonded pair.

@Op glad we can help. I would just avoid stuff to bring down pH generally. It's so much easier to raise pH.

Cutting with RO is always an option and you wouldn't need that much, but it sounds like the Bolivian Ram will work for you