Plant troubles in aquatic jars/vases

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AlbanyFishGuy

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Apr 17, 2023
Messages
32
So recently i wanted to set up a small vase planted setup. It was one of those old style goldfish bowls they used to sell a lot. I used soil with a sand cap. The same as another tank has and is going crazy with plant growth. The difference is its smaller, w no heater or water movement. Id seen ppl make videos using this setup and i just thought it was a cool looking kind of art piece i could have around the house. This is my second attempt and everytime the plants die within a week. The first time it was just a couple plants but this last time i adjusted. There is a pothos clipping thats small but doing great. Then i added clippings from other tanks of water wisteria, pogostemon octopus, a piece of scarlet temple (that was sort of a i wonder if...move) bacopa monieri, baby tears, and hornwort. The hornwort is still alive barely but everything else same result. Anyone know where im going off course? Is it water movement? Heater? Wrong plant types? Witchcraft!?
 
Also floated some water wisteria, water speite and pogostemon from other tanks and they seem to be all doing fine...
 
Are you adding fertiliser or nutrients? Remember that a lot of the nutrients your plants need are being provided by fish waste in aquariums. In particular im thinking of nitrogen and phosphate.

In aquariums, nitrogen is supplied through ammonia and nitrate. With no fish in the tank these nutrients could essentially be zero unless your tap water contains nitrate or your fertiliser has an appreciable amount of nitrate in it. Even if you are using a fertiliser, most aquarium specific fertilisers have essentially zero nitrogen or phosphate in them because they are seen as causing algae. A few aquarium fertilisers do have these essential nutrients in good supply though. NA Thrive is often considered the #1 aquarium plant fertiliser, and it has a good amount of nitrogen in there. If you are from a country where NA Thrive is available thats a good fertiliser to go for. I think a standard dose of thrive increases nitrate by 6ppm. Here in the UK we have TNC Complete, Aquarium Coop and Tropica also do all in one fertiliser that has a good amount of nitrogen and phosphate in them, there will be other products too. Or use non aquatic plant food. Or use water from your aquarium taken before a water change.

Pothos and those floating plants are very nutrient intensive, and even if there is nitrogen and phosphate in the water source the pothos will take it all up and starve the other other plants.

Then there is light. Most aquariums have a good, strong light immediately above them. How is the lighting for your vases.

Plants need CO2. Gas exchange is promoted by surface agitation, so if there is no water movement CO2 cant be replenished. Not sure how much of a problem this would cause, i would have thought regular water changes would solve this. Same for carbonate hardness. Most of those commonly kept, low demand aquatic plants actually get their carbon needs from carbonate hardness, not disolved CO2. Carbonate hardness hardness will get used up as the plants grow, but regular water changes should replenish this.

Are you dechlorinating the water. Chlorine can burn plants.

Im interested in how this goes for you. Im planning on making some moss balls in a jar to give at Christmas presents with a short note on "keeping your moss ball healthy". They are really expensive to buy, but i think i can make them up quite cheaply. Im shortly going to do one as a prototype to see how it goes long term. My plan is to keep the jar somewhere well lit, change the water every 2 weeks after the new water has sat in a jug overnight to dechlorinate it. See how it goes. Hoping they wont need fertiliser.
 
Are you adding fertiliser or nutrients? Remember that a lot of the nutrients your plants need are being provided by fish waste in aquariums. In particular im thinking of nitrogen and phosphate.

In aquariums, nitrogen is supplied through ammonia and nitrate. With no fish in the tank these nutrients could essentially be zero unless your tap water contains nitrate or your fertiliser has an appreciable amount of nitrate in it. Even if you are using a fertiliser, most aquarium specific fertilisers have essentially zero nitrogen or phosphate in them because they are seen as causing algae. A few aquarium fertilisers do have these essential nutrients in good supply though. NA Thrive is often considered the #1 aquarium plant fertiliser, and it has a good amount of nitrogen in there. If you are from a country where NA Thrive is available thats a good fertiliser to go for. I think a standard dose of thrive increases nitrate by 6ppm. Here in the UK we have TNC Complete, Aquarium Coop and Tropica also do all in one fertiliser that has a good amount of nitrogen and phosphate in them, there will be other products too. Or use non aquatic plant food. Or use water from your aquarium taken before a water change.

Pothos and those floating plants are very nutrient intensive, and even if there is nitrogen and phosphate in the water source the pothos will take it all up and starve the other other plants.

Then there is light. Most aquariums have a good, strong light immediately above them. How is the lighting for your vases.

Plants need CO2. Gas exchange is promoted by surface agitation, so if there is no water movement CO2 cant be replenished. Not sure how much of a problem this would cause, i would have thought regular water changes would solve this. Same for carbonate hardness. Most of those commonly kept, low demand aquatic plants actually get their carbon needs from carbonate hardness, not disolved CO2. Carbonate hardness hardness will get used up as the plants grow, but regular water changes should replenish this.

Are you dechlorinating the water. Chlorine can burn plants.

Im interested in how this goes for you. Im planning on making some moss balls in a jar to give at Christmas presents with a short note on "keeping your moss ball healthy". They are really expensive to buy, but i think i can make them up quite cheaply. Im shortly going to do one as a prototype to see how it goes long term. My plan is to keep the jar somewhere well lit, change the water every 2 weeks after the new water has sat in a jug overnight to dechlorinate it. See how it goes. Hoping they wont need fertiliser.



Ok so a lot there lol.

So the idea is for the plant nutrients to come from the nitrate rich soil and organics. Since there sand to cap it, i did add a little of aquarium co ops easy green as well as i knew the plants roots had to develop and find the soil to begin pulling from it. But even if it were a lack of nutrients, they die almost immediately which is weird. Ive never had plants die on me within days aside from occasional "melts"

The pothos definitely is a greedy nutrient addicted beast FOR SURE. But i dont think thats the issue as it was not in the first attempt, only the second. The floaters were also not present first time around.

The light is a full spectrum plant light. Nothing super crazy, just a cheap amazon plant light made to go over houseplants that need stronger light when u cant put them near windows. I have another tank with a $20 home depot grow light and that thing grows plants like crazy lol. It could however, just be a crappy light that doesnt work as advertised. Weird thing there though is the two houseplants next to the bowl receive ambient light from it and are doing great. The bowl is directly below it.

Yes the water is dechlorinated.

Like i said before i have other tanks using the exact same soil and sand and i am getting constant new growth faster than any of my traditional gravel tanks have ever done. I really think its either a going from hot to cold with the ac or because of the water movement as you mentioned. However ive watched tons and tons of ppl making these on youtube, many with no filter or airation which is why im perplexed. I also watched diana walstead herself make one step by step and followed to a T. Its so strange!! I WILL NOT GIVE UP!!!!

heres a link to that video with walstead so you can get a better idea of the setup. Thanks for being on the case!!
https://youtu.be/zmwhQ0-60w0
 
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