Poor SPS color in Low nutrient system

[MonkeyMonk86]

I have forgotten everything about saltwater tanks, so I'm thinking outside the box... but can u test your testing chemicals? Can u make a known solution containing something that should test positive and test that. Just to be sure your testing chemicals are good.

 

[bribo12]

I guess I'm just confused by the fact that you feed a lot and have a high bioload but your skimmer doesn't pull much.
Are the sps brown or just pale? They don't really look brown in the pics

 

[gaker]

Are the sps brown or just pale? They don't really look brown in the pics

It's a mixed bag, really. A few are pale, and some went from striking blues to just brown.

And yeah, unless I skim very "wet", I don't get much at all.

 

[bribo12]

Hmm yeah I understand my skimmer is similar. Maybe go the month without a water change and test for nitrates an phosphates. If they appear problem solved. If not then its still a mystery

 

[mr_X]

If they are all exhibiting different symptoms, I would not think it's one issue. I also would not judge your water quality by the Aqua-c's performance. I've had experience with the regular model and I found it to be about worthless.

 

[Animal-Chin]

I can't see 2 T5's supporting acro coral at all. I had a 4 bulb over my tank and acro at the top would brown. I switched to LED and the color came back. I kill myself to keep my parameters perfect for my sps coral, the thought of purposely dirty'n up the water to bring color back is killing me over here...lol

 

[Animal-Chin]

It's a mixed bag, really. A few are pale, and some went from striking blues to just brown.

And yeah, unless I skim very "wet", I don't get much at all.

what kind of pump are you using? I was using the maxijet 1200 and it hardly skimmed but I upgraged and now I get a full cup of dark green water every 3 days. There is a better pump but I can't remember what it's called right now, I'm sure you can google it if you're using the maxijet.

 

[gaker]

Wow, all these replies are fantastic. Thank you!

I'm using the Maxi Jet 900 which came with the remora nano. I did email aquaC a while back regarding the pump, and they recommended against bumping up to the MJ 1200, as they indicated it would be too much for their "nano" skimmer.

Yes, @Animal-Chin, the thought of "dirtying" up my water does go against everything one is taught. But is there a balance to strike? I've read forum posts where people struggle to keep nitrates at 40. I've never read even 5, and I don't think I'm doing anything particularly special.


¯\_(ツ)_/¯


So the general consensus here seems to indicate lights might be part of the issue. So question, what do people think a good distance should be from the lights to the water? I'm sitting at 8 inches off the water now. I have about 8 inches of water depth. I obviously have some room to move it down. How close do you think I should have the lights off of the water? Should I go down an inch a week, or do something different?


Thanks!

 

[Gregcoyote]

You posted a couple of things I found confusing. You report no measurable organics in your tanks, but your water exchange and feeding schedules makes that look pretty near impossible to me. If excess food is going in the sump and you are filter feeding, with the skimmer not making any skimmate, doesn't added up to me very well. Where are the organics going? i would double check those phosphate and nitrate numbers.

SPS corals look brown when in higher organic laden systems with not enough light. They color up as organics go down and lighten up when lighting levels go up and the excess algae stops growing in their flesh.

I wouldn't dirty up the water IMO. In some systems with certain types of filters, or systems that carbon dose, there can be an imbalance between nitrates and phosphates. In those cases some will add nitrates to help bacterial growth when nitrogen becomes limited. It takes 16 times more nitrate to build a cell than it does phosphates, so when nitrates go to zero, you need another mechanism to bind phosphates, like GFO or phosguard. But I doubt that's your issue.

 

[Sniperhank]

Filter feeder food is phosphates in a bottle. I'd check out those tests.

 

[gaker]

Okay, So I've been going roughly six weeks doing this same thing. And my results have been quite interesting.

First, possibly due to "overskimming" one could say I'm running an "Ultra Low Nutrient System". I think the lack of nitrates/phosphates as I've indicated before show this to possibly be true.

Additionally, I found a couple threads over on reef central about this:

Calcium/Alkalinity & PH, SPS color... - Reef Central Online Community
The Dirty SPS Tank Club - Reef Central Online Community


TL;DR on those threads, a.) high alk in low nutrient systems can be stressful. b.) Low nutrients == no food for corals


So here's what I've done:

1.) Back off my ALK down to between 7-8.
2.) Kept calcium around 420 or so

Water changes:
I did a 5 gallon water change on 27 FEB, then again on 27 March.

Feeding:

1.) 1/3 cube of Marine Cuisine frozen once a day, at the same time, I target feed all of my corals with Reef Chili from BRS. (fwiw, I do two scoops, which is 2x the recommended dose of what one should do every 2 or 3 days)

2.) Once a day when the daylights are off and tentacles are out, I'll drop in 5cc of phytoplankton or thawed cyclops in the current and let the tank feed itself.

Results

Significantly better growth and colors have improved dramatically. In the last 6 weeks, once acropora has encrusted appx 1cm on the rock it is on and it has gone from a "blah" brown on its tips to a really nice blue.

Nitrates & Phosphates are still not detectable.

Mistakes

I am pretty sure my city water contains chloramines, so I was adding some prime to my RO top off water. Well, that was stupid, since it caused most of my Chaeto to die off....that was a two week or so experiment, so the remaining chaeto is coming back.

----

I have two tanks that have been in the same situation, both about 23-24 gallons of water volume. About 3-4 weeks ago in my nano cube, I was trying to rescue a new ric from my pistol shrimp when I knocked my T5 fixture into the water...and my arm was in the tank. Luckly, I was wearing rubber gloves up to my armpit, and my wall plug tripped. Nothing died (including me), so move on and be thankful.

Anyway, I borrowed a RapidLED Onyx (I had a 4 bulb T5 fixture), and the changes have been even more astounding. Check this out:

A wild acro that didn't do to well for me. This is one (of the many) pieces I was able to save. Colors are terrible, right?

It was really starting to color up nicely with this experiment, but the LEDs over the last 3 weeks have made a huge difference. I'm just shocked, honestly. (the one on the left). It was beat up by a mili on the frag rack a couple weeks ago, but it is coming back nicely.

Here's a FTS. I need to rearrange so the red brain doesn't fight with the hammer.

So I guess so far this has worked really well for me. I'm going to go back to 5 gallon water changes every two weeks, I think. Other than that, I might look into LEDs again for my small shallow tank. I'm really shocked at the amazing results over the last three weeks in my nanocube

 

[Gregcoyote]

I have a couple of Onyx fixtures over my frag tank and I am also very pleased with the hard coral growth. I have a couple of frags that did so so under regular LEDs, but have grown significantly better under the Onyx fixture. Maybe many other factors as well, but even our DIY LED at my office, which is also full spectrum, is growing hard corals pretty fast. I can't say for sure, but full spectrum doesn't grow corals any slower than other LEDs. As to the real difference, somebody should set up a test. And not by a LED manufacturer.

 

[jeffaquarius]

The update is really appreciated and Im glad the advice of everyone worked for you. All those information are precious and useful for those encountering similar problem.

 

[bribo12]

That's awesome you figured it out. Those brains are killer btw

 

[gaker]

Indeed, it is really impressive. As I've lamented to you at the LFS, Greg, my first go-round with LEDs wasn't too good. But it was a DIY fixture from RapidLED, and things just went...badly.

I'm running an 8 hour light cycle and have the LEDs 16 inches above the water. I've seen a small birdsnest frag on the top of my tank encrust about 1/4" off of its plug in the last three weeks.

It feels good to sort of feel like I've "figured out" how my tanks want to behave now.

In the tank I included photos of in my first posts (Mr Aqua 12 Long), I strongly believe the lack of nutrients were the main issue, but I do see an upgrade to an Onyx Fixture on that tank in the future soon. My colors are way better by over-feeding, but I can't ignore the results in my nanocube from the LEDs.